You are correct. They are limited to 76 seats. But lets not forget that they can be certified for up to 90 seats (like the CRJ-900 and EMB-175). Hmm... What airline allowed 90 seat jets before a month ago. America West using Mesa CRJ-900's. That was it. Now Northwest is allowing 55 of them flown by feeder carriers. Oh, and what's this 1:1 ratio. All Northwest has to do is order 100 of these 77-110 seat jets, and now the feeders can have 190 of these 90 seat jets.
Why would Northwest want to order 100 of these 100+ seat jets. Oh, how about to replace those 115 DC-9's that average over 30 years old. NORTHWEST PILOTS JUST GOT SCREWED!!! This section will allow almost 200 of these 90 seat jets to be operated at a SEPARATE regional. And that is just to replace the DC-9's. Now imagine Northwest wants to expand a little. Maybe 250-300 CRJ-900 type aircraft at SEPARATE regionals. Wow. And we haven't even covered Compass yet.

Oh, so Compass is limited to 90 of these 90 seat aircraft. Same 1:1 provision allows MORE regional aircraft.

Do I really have to explain this or can you see how management can screw Northwest pilots buy selling it almost immediately, and then cancelling the flowthrough. Oh, pay rates to be discussed later. Way to dance around the issue.

Wasn't this what this entire negotiation was for. How could it not have been covered.

Here are all the lines worrying about the furloughed Northwest pilots. Like I said earlier, ALPA had their head up their @$$ worrying about those furloughed pilots. Now Northwest is recalling ALL OF THEIR FURLOUGHED PILOTS, and this is not an issue.

Here are some things that Northwest and ALPA could have/ SHOULD HAVE done differently.

Why did they allow aircraft certified for up to 90 seats. Almost every airline has 70 seat certified jets (CRJ-700, EMB-170), like United, American, Delta..., but NO ONE (except for America West) had 90 seat aircraft. That precident that Northwest just set will HAUNT pilots throughout the industry. 90 seat jets at the regionals, here they come!

They were on the right track limiting the number of these LARGE regional jets (55 to separate regionals, 90 to Compass). That alone was PLENTY!!! Then they allowed more of these airplanes to be outsourced if Northwest on a 1:1 ratio if Northwest "entered into service" a 77-110 seat airplane.
GEE, I wonder how soon until Northwest enters about 100 of these type of aircraft into service to replace their DC-9's. That's another 100 of these 90 seat RJ's at a regional.
Hell, maybe Northwest won't even need to replace the DC-9. They got such a good concession from their pilots that these 90 seat certified RJ's that they could probably be used to OUTSOURCE ALL OF THE DC-9 FLYING!!!



Lets see, other places where ALPA and Northwest really f*cked up. This entire idea of flying 90 seat certified aircraft NOT on the Northwest pilot seniority list is exactly what Northwest wants. WHY?
You spend a few years of your career at Pinnancle/Mesaba/Compass/whoever is operating these 90 seat aircraft. Then you'd get hired at NW and start at first year pay, say flying the A320 (cause the DC-9's will be gone eventually).
Well, if these 90 seat RJ's were flown by pilots on the Northwest seniority list, when you'd upgrade to A320 FO, you would be on say 3 or 4 year pay, and that is a LOT MORE. Every year, you have a several year advantage on pay because you will have spent more time at Northwest.

Northwest is in such bad shape. They are by far in the worst position of all the legacies. After all, they are the lowest paid. They have the oldest fleet. They are in bankruptcy. And now they just outsourced all this flying. That is not only going to be brutal for ALL the pilots at Northwest, but the effects will ripple throughout the industry, and have effects on the entire pilot group. Northwest just opened a new door to outsourcing.

The maximum number of RJs in the entire NWA SYSTEM may only be 90 (of which 35 are to replace the avro85 that are at Mesaba so a NET increase of only 55) and then only increased further on a 1 for 1 basis. Replacing DC-9s with 76-110 seat jets would not allow for the addition of more RJs on a 1 to 1basis due to the "floor" limit. The four options described in the NWA contract are not cumulative. Mesa could not operate 55, and Compass then operate another 55, while Pinnacle and Mesaba also operate another 55.....

Read your own quote #3 there bud, if they don't maintain the flow up/down provisions they must reduce the total number of RJs in the system from 90 to 55. Do you really think they would limit themselves or build up the feeder carriers and then risk it all by not maintaining the flow up/down?

NWA did not allow for a 90 seat jet to be operated by any regional in their system. They may operate a CERTIFICATED 90 seat airplane but only put 76 seats in it. I don't believe you will see this happen.

I believe you will. I am pretty sure Northwest ordered EMB-175's and CRJ-900's. Delta ordered a few CRJ-900's and put 76 seats in them. Jetblue took their 156 seat A320's, and took out a row to make them 150 to cut a flight attendent off of every flight. What makes you think Northwest won't fly these 90 seat sized aircraft configured with 76 seats.


As I have stated in my previous posts, OUTSOURCING THIS FLYING IS THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR ANY FUTURE NORTHWEST PILOTS. Not only will they be paid less when they are flying these 90 seat aircraft, but they will not be on the Northwest seniority list.
That is so terrible. Lets say a pilot flys CRJ-900's at a regional partner for 4 years, then gets hired by Northwest. Say in his 4th year he is FO on the 757. If the CRJ-900's were at Northwest, he would get 8th year pay when flying the 757, and that is a BIG DIFFERENCE! That means that EVERY year a pilot flies for Northwest, they are making less than they should because they would have had more years of service with the company. Essentially they are being paid less to fly the same mainline equipment.

Damn. I can't believe how bad they messed their scope clause up.

So did anybody talked to Compass at the job fair on the 27th?

2. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats not owned, leased, financed, or controlled by NWA and operated at Feeder Carriers flying their own aircraft.

here is mesabas big problem

Are these Air Inc. things worth going to?

They can be...You have to stay focused on realities and places you are qualified for. Don't waste your time meeting the SWA guy when you are looking to get a regional or 135 gig.

-LAFF