Well if it's a choice between working at a crappy regional without a mainline seniority number, or working for mainline under a crappy b-scale until you have the seniority to bid bigger equipment, most would take the later.

The problem is the likely inevitable compensation creep without whipsaw, and the issue of military pilots.

 

Agree completely!!!!

I'd rather be furloughed awaiting recall from a legacy and working at Home Depot than grunting it out at a regional and wanting to put a bullet in my head every day I go to work.

But the points that you, me, and others are getting at in this discussion is that simple solutions are seldom either/neither.

 

Where was the outrage by regional pilots when you guys were growing at historical high rates in the early 2000's? All you guys were willing to accept jobs at regionals at low pay to get yourself some jet time. The major pilots had little leverage in our negotiations when you had a line of wet behind the ears pilots all willing to throw themselves into a jet cockpit for a quick upgrade.

Just because your pre-planned career path didn't materialize isn't always the fault of someone else. The regional pilots are culpable for a great deal of what is taking place currently. They were all willing to accept low wages in exchange for experience in the hopes of landing a major job. The major pilots are finally taking back scope and there is a realization by airline managements that outsourced flying wasn't the cure they thought it was. As fewer jobs at the regionals exist and more mainline jobs are created there will be a significant number of RJ pilots that won't make it to the next level for various reasons. The number of major jobs won't equal the lost RJ jobs.

Why do the regional pilots want to always be portrayed as a victims. Were they so focused on SJS they couldn't see the future.

 

And in the 90's, the legacies were willing to trade scope for a big paycheck, defined benefit retirements, wide body orders, etc.

The SAME reason the legacy pilots like to play victim. Were they so focused on paychecks and HJS (heavy jet syndrome) that they couldn't see the future?

But man, what an epic coup for management. Simply help to create enough problems that pilots will be distracted and simply fight amongst themselves while management continue to prosper.

'Murica, eff yeah!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Is this true? Where is this happening out of curiosity?

 

Should we have a "dolt-ish" and pointless poll??

NO

!!

 

In the early 2000's places like Comair, Eagle, and Continental Express were the only civilian path to their respective majors. In the case of CE, the rug was pulled out from under us by CAL revoking flow-thru and spinning off the CE into Expressjet. ALL the pilots at the majors sold scope. ALPA heralded increasingly bad regional contracts as "landmarks that would ensure pilots have jobs". ALPA did nothing to even try and increase the QOL at the regionals. They spent money inflating giant animals to put outside airline HQs, but didn't spend a thin dime to advertise the poor pay problems of outsourcing. ALPA has a crap PR machine. Only the crash of Colgan 3407 got the public motivated to slow the race to the bottom. ALPA was totally ineffective. They could not even get known crewmwmember through--an ExpressJet FO did that, by simply refusing to be groped on the way to work. ALPA DID take credit for his efforts, though. Most of us at the regional level believe ALPA has not only failed us, but that it never really tried in the first place.

 

Interesting theory, and it makes perfect sense. But regarding military pilots, why are they so highly revered? Does flying an A-10 or C-17 make you a god among civilian pilots?

On the flip side of that, I also know some military pilots who did their 20 years and are now going to regionals. What gives?

 

My theory is that if regional airlines are going to continue to exist, ALPA is not in their best interests. But pilots don't directly control that scenario so its best that pilots find better representation at this level now. I can't think of a bigger conflict of interest as major airline pilots make the most money on the backs of regional pilots by selling scope.

 

Once the scope is sold and the bottom feeders (Hulas, JO, JA, etc) scramble to be the lowest bidder, there really is little independant representation can do at that point. How would a RALPA equivalent do anything different?

The connection summit groups or whatever they are called illustrate this perfectly. Everyone handshakes and backslaps, but ends up going back to their corners and voting to undercut the others to get work. Other than an IndyAir scenario, which is even less likely to succeed these days than in the past, union affiliation has little to do with the plight of the ACMI low bid section of the industry. Its a mainline problem and will require a mainline solution by tightening scope. Changing the card in your wallet will do nothing to fix the core issues.