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-   -   upgrade vs. wholly owned? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/83426-upgrade-vs-wholly-owned.html)

deltajuliet 08-21-2014 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck (Post 1709812)
This. Why do instructors with bare ATP mins think they will be ready to be LEFT SEAT PIC OF A 76,000 LBS JET IN LESS THAN TWO YEARS?!?!?!

Blows my mind. No I did not type with the caps locked by mistake.

Why does China think it can put a 250 hour pilot who can barely land a Cessna in the right seat of a widebody?

In comparison, I think America will fare just fine. Especially when "bare ATP mins" have gone up 700% from a few years ago.

Crazy Canuck 08-21-2014 03:59 PM


Originally Posted by deltajuliet (Post 1709817)
Why does China think it can put a 250 hour pilot who can barely land a Cessna in the right seat of a widebody?

In comparison, I think America will fare just fine. Especially when "bare ATP mins" have gone up 700% from a few years ago.

Fair point. I, personally, think there should be much higher mins on captain requirements. I was one of those quick upgrade jockeys onto a multi-turbine aircraft with a handful of hours (not even ATP Requirements). I'm surprised I made it as far as I did when I look back on my level of piloting skill at the time. It's because I can relate to that I say this.

deltajuliet 08-21-2014 04:03 PM

In practice, what makes being PIC any harder? I'm not on the line yet so I don't have any real authority on this, what was your experience?

Mesabah 08-21-2014 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by deltajuliet (Post 1709823)
In practice, what makes being PIC any harder? I'm not on the line yet so I don't have any real authority on this, what was your experience?

PIC is actually an easier job, until an emergency, or IROP.

OnCenterline 08-21-2014 05:24 PM

....and this thread is now officially off-track.

To the OP: a lot of guys are upset at PSA for under-cutting Eagle/Envoy, but the truth is, this industry requires you to look out for yourself. Go to a smaller carrier getting bigger (like PSA), or one with a lot of attrition (Compass), fly your tail off to reach the mins required to be captain, upgrade, and fly your tail off to reach 1000-1500 TPIC.

While all of that is going on, try to become an instructor or check airman to put some polish on your resume, and work on building your network of pilot friends that can help you out later.

Some airlines are not as well thought of by pilots as others. I can remember well when many would not give a Mesa guy the time of day, and Eagle wasn't far behind. GoJet was treated even worse. Go where you need to go, which might be one of these listed. Their pilots are moving on to the majors, which means if you play your cards right and stay out of trouble, you might do the same.

One piece of advice you will see a lot on here that you should heed is move to the base. I'll go a step further and say move to the base if it's in a major hub for the mainline partner. At some point, you will need to commute, possibly for years. If you don't need to now, then don't.

skyxbomb 08-21-2014 09:07 PM

Honestly, the ship has sailed at PSA. Compass is still a good bet. Mesa might be filling up too but last time I had a Mesa jumpseater, he told me upgrade is down to 1 year!!! Of course the guys that are upgrading have prior 121 experiences to meet the minimums but still, that's ridiculous!

Here's the advice of the year...

GOTO PIEDMONT!!!!

I'm not joking. PDT is currently in a worst position than PSA when AA threatened PSA. I'm assuming they will take the deal or will probably close shop. If they do get a new fleet, watch how fast things will move there. But grow a thick skin because you will be called the next endeavor or PSA scumbags.

Bzzt 08-21-2014 09:39 PM


Originally Posted by skyxbomb (Post 1709996)
Honestly, the ship has sailed at PSA. Compass is still a good bet. Mesa might be filling up too but last time I had a Mesa jumpseater, he told me upgrade is down to 1 year!!! Of course the guys that are upgrading have prior 121 experiences to meet the minimums but still, that's ridiculous!

Here's the advice of the year...

GOTO PIEDMONT!!!!

I'm not joking. PDT is currently in a worst position than PSA when AA threatened PSA. I'm assuming they will take the deal or will probably close shop. If they do get a new fleet, watch how fast things will move there. But grow a thick skin because you will be called the next endeavor or PSA scumbags.

Probably not bad advice, you'll be on the ground floor of a hiring wave.

Waitingformins 08-22-2014 03:34 AM

To the Op, I’ve been following the hiring for years and the conventional wisdom was to not chase the upgrade because there were quality alternatives even as short as 3-4 years ago Pinnacle, Eagle and ExpressJet. Now, there are no secure companies to look toward. The small ones you may or may not upgrade quickly, the large ones you may or may not have a job. Chasing the upgrade isn’t more or less risky than ever before but the opportunity cost has gone way down because the “stable” regionals don’t exist anymore. Going to the shorter upgrade is like climbing a rocky cliff you will get bloodied and bruised, but going to a large one is like climbing a mud bank, you may end up sliding backwards. Just prepare yourself for whichever one you choose. Perception is what controls your happiness.

tom11011 08-22-2014 04:56 AM

If quality of life items such as living in base without commuting are not that big of a deal to you because you are not married with no kids etc.. then by all means try and go for the low upgrade time.

I can't think of a #2 priority that isn't low upgrade time can you?

Dunkin 08-22-2014 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by skyxbomb (Post 1709996)
Honestly, the ship has sailed at PSA. Compass is still a good bet. Mesa might be filling up too but last time I had a Mesa jumpseater, he told me upgrade is down to 1 year!!! Of course the guys that are upgrading have prior 121 experiences to meet the minimums but still, that's ridiculous!

Here's the advice of the year...

GOTO PIEDMONT!!!!

I'm not joking. PDT is currently in a worst position than PSA when AA threatened PSA. I'm assuming they will take the deal or will probably close shop. If they do get a new fleet, watch how fast things will move there. But grow a thick skin because you will be called the next endeavor or PSA scumbags.

Ship sailed at PSA? Most junior captain in December 2015 hasn't been hired yet. PSA would still be just as good as Compass, especially if you live in the southeast and you get two interviews at AA (not a guarantee but better than nothing like Compass has).


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