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Old 08-24-2014 | 10:37 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by skyxbomb
The perfect storm was 6 years ago. Much like it is now until economy tanked and retirement age was raised to 65. One of them we didn't really have control over. There's nothing wrong with using regionals as stepping stone to get in and get out. That was what regionals were meant for. Unfortunately for many of this, this stepping stone turned into sinking sand. Meanwhile many of us are fighting for major/lcc like contract at a regional. That's like the doctors interning wanting to stay at their residency and demanding higher pay and QOL. It's definitely an uphill battle especially when the regionals will most likely disappear in the next ten years due to lack of pilots.



If they actually raised pay and benefits for a change, they probably wouldn't disappear "due to lack of pilots".
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Old 08-24-2014 | 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ross9238
Joe doesn't have to worry about it because he is in the left seat and has been for a long time, right Joe. Would you turn your 4 weeks for the improvement of the industry?
Somewhere around the 8/10 year mark, the loss of income/QOL would start to actually be a sacrifice.. that's why I limited it to 8 years.. go fight somewhere else.
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Old 08-24-2014 | 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Paid2fly
If they actually raised pay and benefits for a change, they probably wouldn't disappear "due to lack of pilots".
HE gets it.
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Old 08-24-2014 | 10:59 AM
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I know this idea is well intentioned but it has to be one of the most poorly thought out things I've heard on here in a long time.

Let's assume you are able to get this organized or not even organized, but enough people do it. Let's be honest, enough people are going to have to do it for this to have enough effect to a) have mainline take back flying or b) have regionals offer better benefits. By the way, a regional isn't really even capable of offering significantly better compensation without taking it from somewhere else. Their current contracts were bid with certain labor costs already accounted for. If you think, out of the blue, regionals are going to be able to just start offering 7 year pay during year 1, you're completely dellusional to the economic reality of the situation.

Scenario 1: Everyone quits. Flights are canceled and mainline picks up a big chunk of flying. Then you go to interview: "excuse me sir, might I ask why you quit X regional airline 2 years ago along with hundreds of your peers?" How do you answer that question? Even if you have a creative answer, you are going to be less likely to be hired at the now expanding majors because you have cost your "future" employer a LOT of money. Why should they believe you aren't going to do something like that again? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you quit during the "great regional exodus." They don't have to tell you why you weren't hired.

Scenario 2: You quit and regionals significantly increase compensation and bonuses to new hires. Many of those regionals are going to go bankrupt and you have just screwed over everyone year 8 and above. Those that survive? Why should they rehire you? You, legally in poor faith, caused them to lose MILLIONS of dollars. I know if I was a regional manager, I wouldn't hire you back. I know your argument is that the companies aren't currently acting in good faith. If that were true, a federal mediator would be able to determine that and the pilot group would be permitted to strike. At this point, it hasn't been determined that this is, in fact, the case (legally).

So, let's say you jump ship and things DON'T change. Now what? What do I do now? I haven't been making enough over the last x years to have any significant savings accumulation. I might have student loans or a family to think of. Where are 1000 ex-pilots going to find work? The economy isn't that healthy that you can just go find a decent job somewhere at the drop of a hat. Many people have given up the left seat (many regionals are well within 5 years for upgrade) for this harebrained idea and are now competing with would-be fresh ATPs for a chance to be at the bottom of the totem again.
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Old 08-24-2014 | 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CBreezy


Scenario 1: Everyone quits. Flights are canceled and mainline picks up a big chunk of flying. Then you go to interview: "excuse me sir, might I ask why you quit X regional airline 2 years ago along with hundreds of your peers?" How do you answer that question? Even if you have a creative answer, you are going to be less likely to be hired at the now expanding majors because you have cost your "future" employer a LOT of money. Why should they believe you aren't going to do something like that again? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you quit during the "great regional exodus." They don't have to tell you why you weren't hired.

Scenario 2: You quit and regionals significantly increase compensation and bonuses to new hires. Many of those regionals are going to go bankrupt and you have just screwed over everyone year 8 and above. Those that survive? Why should they rehire you? You, legally in poor faith, caused them to lose MILLIONS of dollars. I know if I was a regional manager, I wouldn't hire you back. I know your argument is that the companies aren't currently acting in good faith. If that were true, a federal mediator would be able to determine that and the pilot group would be permitted to strike. At this point, it hasn't been determined that this is, in fact, the case (legally).
Im not sure you understand supply and demand. Or just exactly how many pilots there are stuck at less than 50k/yr.
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Old 08-24-2014 | 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson
Im not sure you understand supply and demand.
I'm well versed. I'm not sure you understand economics. You know there is a LITTLE more to economics than Supply vs demand, right? If Skywest or Envoy had to choose between paying you more or canceling a flight, what do you think they are going to do? Certainly, in your "reality," it's pay you more. What part of "with current contracts," do you not understand. It's not like a regional is just going to be able to say, "oh, hey, our labor is gone. Can you give us more money so we don't go bankrupt?" The mainline partners are going to shrug their shoulders and tell them that maybe they shouldn't have bid so low. They are going to charge them penalties for poor on-time and completion performance, yes charge the regionals money and accelerate the run to bankruptcy.
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Old 08-24-2014 | 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson
Somewhere around the 8/10 year mark, the loss of income/QOL would start to actually be a sacrifice.. that's why I limited it to 8 years.. go fight somewhere else.
So where exactly do you fit in?
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Old 08-24-2014 | 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CBreezy

If you think, out of the blue, regionals are going to be able to just start offering 7 year pay during year 1, you're completely dellusional to the economic reality of the situation. Of course not... It would require very quick renegotiation of current agreements.

Scenario 1: Everyone quits. Flights are canceled and mainline picks up a big chunk of flying.With what pilots? Then you go to interview: "excuse me sir, might I ask why you quit X regional airline 2 years ago along with hundreds of your peers?" Eastern can either park airplanes or hire someone that quit carrying Braniff customers with 2 weeks notice... which do they choose?

Scenario 2: You quit and regionals significantly increase compensation and bonuses to new hires. Many of those regionals are going to go bankrupt and you have just screwed over everyone year 8 and above. Possible. Those that survive? Why should they rehire you?Eastern can either park airplanes or hire someone that quit carrying Braniff customers with 2 weeks notice... which do they choose?

So, let's say you jump ship and things DON'T change. Now what? What do I do now? I haven't been making enough over the last x years I understand Its a risk... didnt say it wasnt
Im not under the delusion that this is likely
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Old 08-24-2014 | 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson
Im not under the delusion that this is likely
If 3000 regional jet pilots quit and conditions warranted mainline expansion, they could put a 73 or a MD-8 on that route and cut the required number of pilots to 1500. How much do you think it would cost them to buy a bankrupt pilot group with years 8-25 years of experience?
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Old 08-24-2014 | 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
If 3000 regional jet pilots quit and conditions warranted mainline expansion, they could put a 73 or a MD-8 on that route and cut the required number of pilots to 1500. How much do you think it would cost them to buy a bankrupt pilot group with years 8-25 years of experience?
I THINK that what you are saying is that deleting the 30 percent savings that regional airlines provide would invintinize the majors to purchase the regional airlines to secure a supply of pilots. Im all for it.

Last edited by Jefferson; 08-24-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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