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-   -   This is what a pilot shortage really does (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/85195-what-pilot-shortage-really-does.html)

USMCFLYR 11-29-2014 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by satpak77 (Post 1772751)
You pilot shortage guys need to wake up. Where it matters (the majors and quality corporate jobs) there is NO shortage and NEVER WILL BE a shortage.

I'll agree with your entire post except for the first part.

You restrict the "pilot shortage" verbiage to "the majors and quality corporate jobs"; and that may be the end goal - but the PILOT SHORTAGE ranges the entire spectrum of professional pilot positions - and in this case there ARE pilot shortages.
Depending on your stage in the career timeline - you may experience a pilot shoratge - which should be a good thing. As you progress up the ladder - there is less and less of a pilot shortage until you get to "the majors and quality corporate jobs" where there is likely never going to be a real shortage of pilots jobs - just like any pyramid set-up.

satpak77 11-29-2014 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1772769)
I'll agree with your entire post except for the first part.

You restrict the "pilot shortage" verbiage to "the majors and quality corporate jobs"; and that may be the end goal - but the PILOT SHORTAGE ranges the entire spectrum of professional pilot positions - and in this case there ARE pilot shortages.
Depending on your stage in the career timeline - you may experience a pilot shoratge - which should be a good thing. As you progress up the ladder - there is less and less of a pilot shortage until you get to "the majors and quality corporate jobs" where there is likely never going to be a real shortage of pilots jobs - just like any pyramid set-up.

Good points (as always). However I purposely stated the above since 95% of folks looking at "aviation careers" are probably looking at major airlines and the "quality" corporate jobs, aka Proctor and Gamble, Union Pacific, etc type flight departments.

CBreezy 11-29-2014 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by satpak77 (Post 1772786)
Good points (as always). However I purposely stated the above since 95% of folks looking at "aviation careers" are probably looking at major airlines and the "quality" corporate jobs, aka Proctor and Gamble, Union Pacific, etc type flight departments.

But you can't make that delineation. In an experience based career, a shortage at the lowest levels should be the most concerning. If there are no instructors then there can be few students. If there aren't any students, there won't be anyone to fly cargo or 121 regional. In the short term, the majors can absorb regional flying but then you risk upsetting the balance of profits. Ticket prices go up or management comes after wages. Cargo carriers would get priced out and packages would go to trucking or rail. There is a point of diminishing returns. You can't keep raising wages without any sort of blowback.

satpak77 11-29-2014 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1772789)
But you can't make that delineation. In an experience based career, a shortage at the lowest levels should be the most concerning. If there are no instructors then there can be few students. If there aren't any students, there won't be anyone to fly cargo or 121 regional. In the short term, the majors can absorb regional flying but then you risk upsetting the balance of profits. Ticket prices go up or management comes after wages. Cargo carriers would get priced out and packages would go to trucking or rail. There is a point of diminishing returns. You can't keep raising wages without any sort of blowback.

The problem with the above argument is a substantial amount of resumes with solid experience already exist at the majors. What did someone post on here ? 10K apps at AAL ?

The shortage at the lowest levels, will, for now, impact, the lowest levels.

CBreezy 11-29-2014 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by satpak77 (Post 1772792)
The problem with the above argument is a substantial amount of resumes with solid experience already exist at the majors. What did someone post on here ? 10K apps at AAL ?

The shortage at the lowest levels, will, for now, impact, the lowest levels.

You're making the poor assumption that, extrapolated across the industry, there are 30k eligible candidates. I would argue that most of those 10k also have apps in at Delta and United. Split evenly, that's only 3000 pilots available. If regionals continue having staffing problems, which will only get worse, the majors will have to continue grow while shrinking contract flying. Those 3000 apps will go quick.

Not to mention that many of them are probably senior capts at regionals in the late 40s age group. They will have to retire during the worst of the retirment window

satpak77 11-29-2014 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1772794)
You're making the poor assumption that, extrapolated across the industry, there are 30k eligible candidates. I would argue that most of those 10k also have apps in at Delta and United. Split evenly, that's only 3000 pilots available. If regionals continue having staffing problems, which will only get worse, the majors will have to continue grow while shrinking contract flying. Those 3000 apps will go quick.

Not to mention that many of them are probably senior capts at regionals in the late 40s age group. They will have to retire during the worst of the retirment window

OK, lets see how things shake out.

beeker 11-29-2014 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1772789)
But you can't make that delineation. In an experience based career, a shortage at the lowest levels should be the most concerning. If there are no instructors then there can be few students. If there aren't any students, there won't be anyone to fly cargo or 121 regional. In the short term, the majors can absorb regional flying but then you risk upsetting the balance of profits. Ticket prices go up or management comes after wages. Cargo carriers would get priced out and packages would go to trucking or rail. There is a point of diminishing returns. You can't keep raising wages without any sort of blowback.

Profits are at record levels for airline. I think they can afford a handful of pay raises for the people making minimum wages.

CBreezy 11-29-2014 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by beeker (Post 1772831)
Profits are at record levels for airline. I think they can afford a handful of pay raises for the people making minimum wages.

At least you didn't completely miss the point of what I was saying. /irony

Silver02ex 11-30-2014 07:02 AM


Originally Posted by saturn (Post 1772337)

No pilot shortage on SKW side.

Skywest was doing onsite interview at the Aero Crew job fair in FLL earlier this month (at lease that's what they said). Seems to me this is something new? Something that i've never seen Skywest do. If they are not short, why would they be doing this?

block30 11-30-2014 07:10 AM


Originally Posted by Silver02ex (Post 1773155)
Skywest was doing onsite interview at the Aero Crew job fair in FLL earlier this month (at lease that's what they said). Seems to me this is something new? Something that i've never seen Skywest do. If they are not short, why would they be doing this?

I believe Skywest did this at Oshkosh in 2013 and maybe 2014.


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