Shh...eaglefly knows all the answers about envoy. He knows how to read the future.

I say, how about we give a management a break? Parker publicly said that envoy is shrinkkng because of the economics of the other WO are better and if we wanted to succeed we had to be like them. It's being just 6 days since we have those economics, nothing is going to change overnight.

The mind of the yes voter.

Yes, give them a break. They have a long history of contract compliance and kept promises, correct?

Last I heard, your MEC officers told the pilots they could expect Envoy to shrink to something like 110 aircraft or so. But hey, if pilots want to listen to some 4th year regional F/O who might be able to get a cub around the patch without crashing it as the yoda of Envoys flow and future, that's fine. Personally, it would be better for me if as many pilots come to Envoy as possible. AA needs feed to thrive and once we become overstaffed for awhile due to PBS and division consolidation and hiring stops (along with the flow), we'll have that many more long-term Envoy pilots to support our carrier. We NEED a stable group of pilots at Envoy. Now, it won't be as good for those that DID go to Envoy expecting unicorns, rainbows, blue skies and tailwinds and even a pony or two like your management and their chum J3 would have you believe, but it would be more pilots at Envoy and that's good for AA.

Envoy has a long and cherished history of suckering pilots to cockpits with flow promises and so why shouldn't the next generation take their place in continuing a new chapter in that classic fable, just as thousands before them did ?

Obviously you're looking at factual history as opposed to future fantasy. Yes, some will flow, but many factors make virtually certain that it will be a MUCH slower process then the snake oil salesman here are trying to claim standing at the back of their cars with the trunks open. Should someone poison their selling environment, they're labeled "trolls". The flow REQUIRES a steady new-hire supply and if that doesn't occur (and almost certainly won't), boxes of "ottopilots" will not materialize for inflation to support that.

Didn't Pedro claim that Envoy would go so far as to park aircraft to maintain the flow to get Envoy pilots to agree to bankruptcy concessions (the previous round of concession giving by Envoy pilots) ?

Not going to happen.

Yeah, so much look to the History APA look to get Parker?

HoneyMoon Will be over soon between AA pilots and Parker. GMAFB dude...this is everyone by its own...you couldnt get hired any where so that's why you flew and are so disgruntled with the industry. You hate envoy because you got stuck here so much time...well sorry but you probably will retire in less than 15years. I expect you to give away scope if they give you raises.

You probably voted yes in the 16yr deal and then it sucked for you. Stop bashing envoy because your generation is the one that screw us over.

MEC officers don't know the plan .. management doesn't even know the plan beyond a couple of years. It's always been that way.
I've been told so many "plans" over the years that never came true I can' t even remember them all. The only person I believe is myself.
People have poked fun at me about the flow through for 16 years.
Low an behold I will flow soon. The flow is real.. It is not a unicorn. If I was at a non flow airline I would be out there in a sea of thousands trying to get hired.
Yes it took me a lot longer than anyone thought but as has been said there were so many set backs from the lost decade. SARS, $150 a barrel oil, bank crisis , 911 and most importantly age 65. That set everyone back 5 years. Moving forward there will be more issues. Age 67 could come and who knows what else but these old guys can't fly forever. The next decade will be one of the best since the 1960s.
I think there is a decent chance wholly owns could be merged. If staffing gets tight enough they could be forced to make it all one airline. 100% flow from regional to majors. At that point non wholly owns would be locked out.
Having said that it will not be an overnight flow and a person starting today should certainly consider trying to get in at the beginning of the hiring boom. As long as you are a squared away pilot I would go for a fast upgrade. If you have some connections and/ or something a little extra on your resume it will certainly help. If you're a lower end C student from Bumfukle community college/and or bad interviewer you may want a little extra insurance going with a flow through.
A person needs to consider all angles. And one angle is:
Ok , I go to airline X with a 1-2 year upgrade. PSA has about doubled.. will that upgrade time be the same when I actually get to upgrade? Upgrade times are very unpredictable and the airline with the fastest upgrade may not be the one with the fastest in 3-4 years.
So it may take 3-4 years to upgrade at Envoy. In a perfect world where you upgrade somewhere else, and get hired at a major in 3-4 years you will have lost out if the PIC got you the job. On the other hand...
You may upgrade somewhere else faster and simply not get hired at a major as fast as you thought.
I don't think there is one right or wrong scenario here. Both are gambles but one has a bit of insurance built in.

That wasn't just a "claim".. It was to be in writing.

Clearly, you're out of touch. The "honeymoon" between AA pilots and Parker is ALREADY over, "dude". As for the rest of your drivel, that card has been played on me before and by much better players then you. I always know when someone else has no valid arguments left, as they always play the "you couldn't get hired anywhere else card" on me. It used to be the "Eagle lifer-loser" card, but that's no longer applicable. That tack is a demonstration of pathetic weakness, not unlike YOU voting for successive rounds of concessions from a corporation raking in Billions this year and into the future.

As for scope, well kid, on that you're out of luck this go-around. It's not in consideration. Considering the fact that the regional segment of the industry is hopelessly doomed to shrink by at least half in the next 5 years, Parker has all the scope he can use, but hey, if scope should be relaxed in the future, YOU will be the loser there as it only extends your tenure in an RJ.

I can live with that. ;)

But, getting back to the subject of pathetic weakness......

....someone who voted not once, but TWICE for successive concessions from a company raking in billions upon billions is in NO position to criticize others for voting in contracts in the past that were and shockingly still ARE heads and tails FAR better then the garbage you eagerly are willing to work under even when factored in for inflation. The 16 year contract at Eagle turned out to be one of the better deals and provided me with annual pay of $125K/year and much better schedule flexibility then the used toilet paper that's now your agreement.

Some of you kids crack me up.....it's always someone ELSE'S fault you're now in the toilet with a future that's more likely to result in a flushing as opposed to application of bowl freshener. Yes, blame the old Eagle pilots, blame PSA, blame RAH , blame Pinnacle, etc. It's never your fault. What a joke. Clearly as well, you are aware of supposed past mistakes, yet you repeat them which is my whole entire point !

Thanks for the yuk ! This for me has been the most laughable post I've seen on this forum in years. You've truly made my day ! :)

You make the same points I do.

- The flow has (and will) take much longer then anticipated for most, ESPECAILLY any suckers that show up to the back of the Envoy conga line expecting not to step in everyone else's **** in front of them.

- The MEC and management have no ideas about the success or failure of "plans" and therefore can make no guarantees about meeting future promises.

- Most, if not virtually all past promises made never came true.

Yet, given all that to which you just admitted, you for some reason think THIS time it will be different ?

Siwwy piwots...........why can't they ever think straight ? :cool: