Originally Posted by deltajuliet

Out of curiosity, how did yours do? We had some Saudi students too; very few reached their private pilot checkride.

Originally Posted by satpak77

Using APC info, Airline Profile Categories | AirlinePilotCentral.com

The following airlines are arguably the "get hired there and never leave until retirement" companies

Company - Pilots employed

AAL (USAir + AA) - 15822
UAL - 11357
SWA - 3000
DAL - 12430
FDX - 4288
UPS - 2538
JBLU - 3000
HAL - 627
ALK - 1567

Total Pilots: 55,777

With that said, you stated that 101,000 pilot jobs require an ATP and First Class Medical. Well, we just observed that 55K are accounted for at the majors, all will have ATP's by the time of hire, so it is reasonable to conclude that every single one has an ATP.

What you are not considering is that roughly the SAME AMOUNT of TOTAL pilots EMPLOYED at the above carriers (55K) are left over (part of the "101,000" statement) as pilots elsewhere.

So it could be said that "45,000 potential airline pilot applicants exist"

Thats right: 45,000

if the majors REPLACED each pilot, one for one, with someone from the outside, if we are using statistics, we already have enough bodies.

Now, more realistically, FedEx hired (hold on, fasten you seat belts), 7 pilots this year. I wonder if they had a shortage ?

SWA is dropping a type requirement. OK, is this GOOD or BAD ? Kinda Bad, for the applicant. No, this is not "good" for the applicant. As now every swinging Tom Dick and Harry will apply, and your application is now further buried in the pile. GOOD for SWA, they can nickel and dime the applications more. BAD for you.

What about military pilots ? Are they counted in the data ? What about the non-ATP holder, but 1000 TT and 300 multi ? He expects to get his ATP in 24 months. Is this counted ?

Etc ?

No Pilot shortage at the majors.

Acme Night Freight Express hiring Baron captains ? maybe (nobody is fighting for those jobs anyway). FedEx ? Delta ? No shortage

GAO ? You trust the government ?

Originally Posted by NineGturn

CBreezy, you aren't going to convince the pilots that you're right especially since you don't have an argument. You can talk to your other RAA management friends. They would probably be willing to listen to your rationalization.

You aren't getting the laws changed so you can keep hiring low time pilots. You're wasting your time trying to persuade real pilots in these forums.

Your best bet to handle your staffing problems is to create positions and pay that is commensurate with the many high time pilots that are in fact out there. If you did that we could all prove you wrong instantly. Go ahead and offer higher pay for higher time pilots and you'd suddenly see plenty of applicants. You can still pay lower time pilots entry level wages but do do this you'll have to relax seniority rules.

I understand that you must present these arguments because that's your job but you're preaching to the wrong crowd. Stop treating regional airline jobs as internships for the majors.

Originally Posted by satpak77

Gainfully employed: Yes: At Envoy, Mesa, etc. And Part 91 corporate departments. Etc (those not already at majors)

Repeat: All ATP's at non-121-majors are potential major airline applicants.

Period, the end

Originally Posted by CBreezy

That's the problem with your argument.

I know many regional captains that wouldn't leave even if they offered a pay raise to their current pay. The pay, benefits, and seniority is too good to go back to sitting reserve even if it's a short period.

There are many corporate pilots who would NEVER leave for a major. They get weeks and holidays off and similar pay. There are many 91 pilots that fly only a few hundred hours a year. Why would they all of a sudden Want to fly almost 700-800 for a slight increase in pay.

Yes. Some would leave but to say all ATPs are major airline candidates oversimplifies the conversation. Also, major airline flying isn't the entire industry. It is composed of cargo, airlines, corporate, on-demand, charter, and private flying. If one of those sectors has a hard time attracting applicants, which I believe they will in the heat of major retirements, it is a shortage. Period.

Originally Posted by NineGturn

Most foreign airlines don't put low experience pilots in the right seat....they typically spend years in ground training and jumpseat observation before they are allowed to sit right seat.

Originally Posted by satpak77

You are the one arguing, not me

Originally Posted by CBreezy

You could be one of the least intelligent people on this board. I've been vocal against places like Mesa, GoJet and Republic(all members of the RAA). I've been vocal against lowering mins and MPLs. But you and your 9/11 truther friends insist I'm employed by some shadow company.

Originally Posted by NineGturn

You're insulting, rude, incoherent, and are probably not a real pilot. Even if you were it doesn't mean you aren't on the payroll of the RAA and their agenda. The RAA isn't a shadow company and their activities aren't secret.

I've seen you and your activities on this and other boards using this and other online persona.

You are a fake and if I was an admin on this board I could prove it.

People want to have an honest and serious discussion but your job is to disrupt that discussion. Your tactics involve a concerted effort of discrediting people by calling them childish names and diverting the conversation. You will flood boards with off topic remarks and attempt to derail a thread. If anyone gets angry you report them to a mod.

Your kind is not unique to these forums. You and your friends can be found anywhere large corporate interests may be threatened by free and open discussion. You are worse than a troll.

Originally Posted by CBreezy

That's the problem with your argument.

I know many regional captains that wouldn't leave even if they offered a pay raise to their current pay. The pay, benefits, and seniority is too good to go back to sitting reserve even if it's a short period.