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Is flow really a big deal?

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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:02 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Future Cpt Kirk
I have recently signed on with a regional airline... I start training very soon. We do not have flow to the majors. I did not consider flow very much when making my decision. It was more so based on being able to drive to work, contract, pay and current upgrade time.

I have two buddies coming up behind me and they are so determined that the quoted 3-5 year flow to American from PDT is the greatest thing ever, they are not considering any other choices. Not that PDT is a bad choice... I've heard good things and did highly consider them (the outstation bases ultimately knocked them off my list). But is this flow really that big a deal?

I know that Eagle guys who were promised flow ended up sitting there for a long long time. Is flow more of a solid thing now with hiring picking up?

Anyways... Just curious to see what people think.

Take it easy!
Flow while attractive, is no guarantee. There are a lot of variables that can cause it to be metered, or stopped. AA will never park airplanes to allow pilots to flow, it's been said but I honestly never see it happening. They need their feed. As example, if new hires don't come in fast enough due to the famed pilot shortage, the flow will be slowed. If the economy crashes, and AA slows hiring the flow will be slowed or shutdown. The possibility of flow can be "golden handcuffs."
I for one, plan on leaving the comfortable confines of flow to better my resume. In short I don't think it will make or break you, I think in some ways it can cause complacently and slow you down.
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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:04 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by PDTpilotXX
Talk to me in 6 months. Too bad for them.
What does your crystal ball say will happen in six months? Probably the same thing we keep hearing at Envoy, there will be good news coming soon. It will be this Monday, then in two weeks, and then another two weeks. It never ends.
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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:15 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Coneydog
Have you seen any charts for actual retirement numbers at the major airlines? The numbers are pretty staggering. They're gonna have to pillage all the regional airlines to fill seats.
They are pretty staggering, but both Delta and United are running some massive classes (or planning on it in the near future.) I just don't see how those two airlines can continue doing so at that rate, even with the projected retirement numbers.

American, on the other hand, has the largest retirement numbers coming up and have really only hired at a slow and steady pace. Aside from the rare few, the majority of new hires have been middle-aged flow thrus.

That being said, if I were new to the 121 world and wanted to go to a legacy (not LCC) then I would go to an airline with a flow.
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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FirstClass
If you accept a job that has flow, you cannot work at the parent airline outside of the flow. Ie you limit your choice of legacy carrier from 3 to 2.
Wrong! That's only for PSA and PDT. It doesn't apply to Envoy and (I think) Endeavor
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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:26 PM
  #15  
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The Big 3 Legacies are retiring 20,000 pilots in the next decade, a number which is larger than the current pool of regional pilots.

Short answer, get your stuff together and make applying to all of the above, plus LCCs, your new hobby.
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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:28 PM
  #16  
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****!!!!!!!
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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:41 PM
  #17  
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Honestly, I think going anywhere for a flow is stupid. Ask the Envoy guys who have been waiting around the better part of a decade to flow to AA. I know all the PSA, PDT, and Envoy guys on here like to make a show of it, but I don't take it into account much. My goal is to get out of the regionals. If Jet Blue or Spirit or Frontier offers me a job 2 or 3 years from now, I wouldn't stay at my regional airline hoping to flow. I'm getting out. We are all just one economic downturn or major domestic terrorism act away from being on the street anyway. The world economies have faltered in a big way and many have shrunk outright over the past quarter. More and more experts are predicting another recession. We are living in an increasingly hostile world, so I think war is inevitable. Just get in somewhere and cross your fingers. Who cares about flow. And I agree with the OP... If PDT had almost ANYTHING other than outstation basing I probably would of ended up there. But I don't want a 2-leg commute, so I didn't accept.
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Old 05-26-2015 | 05:44 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by jdflyer1999
Wrong! That's only for PSA and PDT. It doesn't apply to Envoy and (I think) Endeavor
Umm...nothing in our agreement at PDT says we can't apply outside of the flow. Nice try though.
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Old 05-26-2015 | 06:00 PM
  #19  
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A wise man once told me. Go to airline and assume it will be your last one. Will you be happy with the result? There lies the answer
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Old 05-26-2015 | 06:05 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by sublime259
They are pretty staggering, but both Delta and United are running some massive classes (or planning on it in the near future.) I just don't see how those two airlines can continue doing so at that rate, even with the projected retirement numbers.

American, on the other hand, has the largest retirement numbers coming up and have really only hired at a slow and steady pace. Aside from the rare few, the majority of new hires have been middle-aged flow thrus.

That being said, if I were new to the 121 world and wanted to go to a legacy (not LCC) then I would go to an airline with a flow.
Delta will retire around 8000 pilots in the next 15 years. They already have over 8000 tier 1 applications on file. Sure, a lot of those guys have apps in at other carriers too, but flowing is not gonna be the only way to a legacy. I think the OP made the right decision, based on QOL and other factors.
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