Washout rate in regionals
01-29-2007 | 07:37 AM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 91
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From: trying to survive
I suppose you could get weeded out for "soft factors" like attitude or oversleeping every morning, but FO's on IOE usually have zero pax interaction.
Usually people (new to 121) fail IOE for visual approaches or descent planning. A check airman buddy of my mine at mesa told me about a young lady who had to be prompted to descend every time (after being given PD)...he told her on the last day that she was going to have to plan and execute the descents and that he was going to say nothing. Well, they arrive over the destination airport (BFL ?) at F290
On the visuals, all the automation tends to get people...it works great when vectored 10 miles outside the marker on a real approach, but on a short dumped-on-the-marker visual you need to turn the AP off, get slow, get dirty, then descend and turn as needed. People new to jets tend to be afraid to arrest their descent to slow down so they can configure...if you don't get configure first, you simply can't go down and slow down.
Usually people (new to 121) fail IOE for visual approaches or descent planning. A check airman buddy of my mine at mesa told me about a young lady who had to be prompted to descend every time (after being given PD)...he told her on the last day that she was going to have to plan and execute the descents and that he was going to say nothing. Well, they arrive over the destination airport (BFL ?) at F290
On the visuals, all the automation tends to get people...it works great when vectored 10 miles outside the marker on a real approach, but on a short dumped-on-the-marker visual you need to turn the AP off, get slow, get dirty, then descend and turn as needed. People new to jets tend to be afraid to arrest their descent to slow down so they can configure...if you don't get configure first, you simply can't go down and slow down.
01-29-2007 | 07:57 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 244
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From: SF340
Personally, I just calculate how long I have in minutes in my head (approx) until the fix, then figure how fast I need to come down given the altitude I need to lose or how long I can wait before I have to come down. I usually err on the get there a tad early side just incase I eff up a bit. I fly a saab so these calculations are extremely easy. Usually we descend at Vmo which, with TAS and giving a little fudge factor gets me just under 5 miles/min or, take the 10s of miles to your point and double it. 20 miles - 4 minutes.
This only works with airplanes that are doing about 250 KIAS, I'll then make a small adjustment + or - if there is a huge wind or I am going extra slow or something. I think the biggest key is knowing how long you have to make your descent, after that it is pretty easy.
This only works with airplanes that are doing about 250 KIAS, I'll then make a small adjustment + or - if there is a huge wind or I am going extra slow or something. I think the biggest key is knowing how long you have to make your descent, after that it is pretty easy.
01-29-2007 | 08:51 AM
#34
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,149
Likes: 802
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I know about all the formulas you can use for decent planning and such, but when you are actually on the line is there a quick way you guys determine what decent rate you need? It just doesn't seem like you'd have the time in that situation to work out a few formulas to get down. When ATC says decend they usually mean, like, now.
01-30-2007 | 03:52 PM
#35
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,467
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From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
the perfect descent: idle all the way down to 1000'agl then bump the power up to catch vref and land. can never happen unless youre flying into a podunk airport, but its a fun game to play with the other pilot to see who can nail it.
01-30-2007 | 04:52 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 394
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Our failure rate is very low...don't know a number, but I'd put it at less than 5%.
We only do 50% of the end-of-course checkrides and orals...but the pass/fail rates are about the same for us and the company evaluators.
As has been said many times, attitude is 90% of the battle. But it's not 100%. Every now and then, we get someone who just can't hack it, regardless of attitude.
Most common reasons why?
No jet, FMS, airline background. The 170 tempo is just too much...the old 'drinking out of a firehose' thing. For someone coming from a background like a Caravan, our program is a very big bite to chew.
But...most folks...even the Caravan drivers...do finish the course. And there are no gimme's...either from the companies or from us.
I'm proud of the folks we train. They've earned their right to the job.
We only do 50% of the end-of-course checkrides and orals...but the pass/fail rates are about the same for us and the company evaluators.
As has been said many times, attitude is 90% of the battle. But it's not 100%. Every now and then, we get someone who just can't hack it, regardless of attitude.
Most common reasons why?
No jet, FMS, airline background. The 170 tempo is just too much...the old 'drinking out of a firehose' thing. For someone coming from a background like a Caravan, our program is a very big bite to chew.
But...most folks...even the Caravan drivers...do finish the course. And there are no gimme's...either from the companies or from us.
I'm proud of the folks we train. They've earned their right to the job.
01-30-2007 | 06:22 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,356
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
I know about all the formulas you can use for decent planning and such, but when you are actually on the line is there a quick way you guys determine what decent rate you need? It just doesn't seem like you'd have the time in that situation to work out a few formulas to get down. When ATC says decend they usually mean, like, now.
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