Originally Posted by waker92 (Post 1970132)

Good stuff on here guys! Learning a ton, and thanks to everyone for keeping it civil. Envoy is becoming more appealing and trying to change the perception people have of them. The flow seems [relatively] promising, and the equipment will no doubt be top notch, bases seem good, I'm from Chicago (go hawks!) and wouldn't mind moving back, and Dallas is definitely a fun town. QOL would be much better for most in comparison to Piedmont, and with Piedmont only bringing 3 or 4 people through with the flow per month is their advertised 3-5 year flow, and short upgrade realistic (assuming everything stays ok)? Or would Envoy still offer more room for progression to the left seat/AA or is getting seat locked still an issue?

Cheers!

Originally Posted by FlyerBeek (Post 1970174)

Is there anything that would contractually preclude an Envoy (or other WO) pilot from pursuing a position with AA on their own while they await their flow?

Originally Posted by Skyvector (Post 1970080)

For American Airlines, and specifically AA CEO Doug Parker, the flow is their future. They are counting on it to staff their wholly owned Regionals (in particular Envoy and Piedmont).

The current flow, as it stands, is Doug Parker's baby. He is extremely proud of it and talks it up like a proud father every chance he gets. The new AA not only believes in flow, they have gone "all in" so to speak.

Their theory goes that in lieu of raising pay at the Regional level they will provide a streamlined, expedited path to AA where the real money is. That streamlined path to AA will attract new hires rather than just simply raising first year pay a little and telling your pilots "good luck on your job hunt" as Republic is trying (and failing) to do with their pilots.

So yes, the flow will be honored and is here for the long run. It's the way of the future and is certainly something that will forever be associated with AA.

Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 1970082)

They can't just "annul" it. Barring another bankruptcy and getting contracts flushed down the toilet. The flow is contractual and arbitrated awards. It would be like them saying OK, I know your contractual pay rate is $80/hr but we just aren't going to pay you that anymore because it doesn't suit our needs.. I guess they "could" do that whenever they feel like it, but it will go to court, and they will very likely lose and have to make it right with damages, back pay etc...

They have not ever thrown out any flow yet.. The old letter 3 flow from MANY years ago was convoluted and had lots of problems and delays, and then we had flowbacks from AA come back down to Eagle due to the massive AA furloughs around 9/11 that lasted until just a few years ago. Also AA didn't hire anyone for over a decade up until 2013 (so of course there was no flow through that time for all those years, and it's why people on the forums always say "look" how long the Envoy flow is.. without understanding WHY.. NO NEW HIRES AT AA FOR 13 YEARS!!).. But NOW, since the AA furloughs have been recalled (one last batch left to go if they want to return) and hiring has resumed in 2013.. The flow has been working and they are honoring it (actually better then they are required to do). If you look at the above chart, hiring this year has been kinda slow at AA.. but they have still given us 65% of the class slots for the year. They are only required to give us 50% of new hire positions. Next year AA hiring projections are around 700 I believe. Someone correct me If I'm off a bit here.. Can't remember exactly what that announcement said.

There is more good info about flow and movement further down the page on the other Envoy thread: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...signments.html

I really don't know of any other flow over the last decade, since I have been in this industry that was ever just "annulled". Compass/Northwest flow is being honored by Delta.. Piedmont/USair to AA.. PSA or Endeavor isn't really a flow, just a preferential interview.. What other one's is there?

Originally Posted by Chrisx2 (Post 1970222)

Talk to Continental Express (now ExpressJet) guys who had their flow anulled.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1970221)

You go girl !

SELL.......SELL.......SELL !

We both know there are a few chumps left out there and wringing that dishrag out to the last drop means more commission, so double down on the hard pitch !

Originally Posted by Chrisx2 (Post 1970222)

Talk to Continental Express (now ExpressJet) guys who had their flow anulled.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1970261)

Don't forget the 150 or so Eagle (Envoy) Letter 3 pilots who were waiting for AA seniority assignment whose flow was scrapped via arbitrators ruling in 2008.