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-   -   How are we going to get rid of the RLA? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/93668-how-we-going-get-rid-rla.html)

galaxy flyer 03-01-2016 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by FirstClass (Post 2079761)
Maybe in the past, but not today. Pilot's need to take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves today. It's a pilots market, its being wasted. The ideal situation is the contract airlines simply become to expensive to operate and mainline brings all the flying back in house. One can only hope that their airline goes out of business.

So, seniority has changed? If you are "trapped" by the inability to leave your company and take a better offer, it does NOT matter how short pilots are, the company doesn't care because you can't leave.

If RJ flying becomes too expensive, how will become cheaper at mainline? It won't.

GF

FirstClass 03-01-2016 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 2079820)

If RJ flying becomes too expensive, how will become cheaper at mainline? It won't.

GF

Gee I guess they'll just have to fly larger airplanes.

272922 03-01-2016 03:59 PM


Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 2079820)
If RJ flying becomes too expensive, how will become cheaper at mainline? It won't.

GF

No, it won't, but as pilot pay for regional aircraft continues to increase it makes less sense to maintain an entire company infrastructure outside of what already exists inside of a mainline carrier, hence it becoming cheaper to operate the aircraft in house.

Delta already has rates in its current contract for CRJ900s, and they're a lot more than what Endeavor guys currently get, even with the retention bonuses.

Gone Flying 03-01-2016 04:10 PM

It seems to me the problem is not with the RLA but rather with mediators not recognizing an impasse. I was under the impression that if two parties did not agree after mediation that the mediator was supposed to release both sides to self help. In the last 15 years most airlines have worked under one expired contract or another for several years. To me it seems that the reason airlines have historically been able to get better contracts was because the mediators back then understood an impasse and would release both sides rather that let groups work for years under an expired CBA. I could be wrong, I have not been in aviation that long, so I do not know if that is actually the case

deltajuliet 03-01-2016 04:21 PM

I think you're right about mediators, and fixing what they've become would be another big win.


Originally Posted by 272922 (Post 2079791)
And again, slow downs, sick outs, everyone writing up everything in outstations, everyone all of a sudden SAPing to 65, etc, beyond the established status quo can be construed as an illegal job action and will be met with action in Federal Court. Your union leaders would bear the brunt of it, and also has the responsibility of stopping it.

But instead, you could just pull your head out of your posterior and realize that the current market forces are most likely going to get you want, and you can avoid the whole sending your MEC to Federal Court thing.

But that wouldn't be as cool, I know.

I hear what you're saying, but even if there was a sudden and dramatic uptick in outstation write-ups, what's the company going to claim, that pilots shouldn't be writing up mx issues? Don't we have a legal obligation to do so? Maybe the planes are just getting older and the mechanics aren't maintaining them well. If each individual write-up is individually defendable, I don't think management would have a leg to stand on.

Chupacabras 03-01-2016 04:24 PM


Originally Posted by Day4mx (Post 2078810)
When teachers, firemen, police, public transportation, garbagemen, EMTs, etc etc can all strike as self help, it's foolish to think a pilot group striking would ruin this country.

Exactly, I doubt our unions would abuse their ability to strike. After all, going on strike is very bad for a company, and that could lead to bankruptcies and generally is not good for business. The risk of a strike to management would definitely bring them to the table unlike now.

Chupacabras 03-01-2016 04:28 PM

Oh, and we would have a chance at ditching the RLA if someone like Bernie Sanders was elected. Otherwise, everyone else protects big business, not the working class.

272922 03-01-2016 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by deltajuliet (Post 2079881)
I hear what you're saying, but even if there was a sudden and dramatic uptick in outstation write-ups, what's the company going to claim, that pilots shouldn't be writing up mx issues? Don't we have a legal obligation to do so? Maybe the planes are just getting older and the mechanics aren't maintaining them well. If each individual write-up is individually defendable, I don't think management would have a leg to stand on.

I'm just telling what's been proven in court before. We all know that we could fill up page after page of logbooks with BS writeups. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.


Originally Posted by Chupacabras (Post 2079885)
Exactly, I doubt our unions would abuse their ability to strike. After all, going on strike is very bad for a company, and that could lead to bankruptcies and generally is not good for business. The risk of a strike to management would definitely bring them to the table unlike now.

You're missing the point. The point is that there is a very real risk that opening up the RLA for changes means that a lot of very highly paid lawyers and lobbyists for the airlines are going to be doing their best to insert legislation into it that's most assuredly not in our best interest.

SErickson 03-02-2016 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 2079860)
It seems to me the problem is not with the RLA but rather with mediators not recognizing an impasse. I was under the impression that if two parties did not agree after mediation that the mediator was supposed to release both sides to self help. In the last 15 years most airlines have worked under one expired contract or another for several years. To me it seems that the reason airlines have historically been able to get better contracts was because the mediators back then understood an impasse and would release both sides rather that let groups work for years under an expired CBA. I could be wrong, I have not been in aviation that long, so I do not know if that is actually the case

Bingo....The RLA isn't broken. The NMB is.

FirstClass 03-02-2016 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 2079860)
It seems to me the problem is not with the RLA but rather with mediators not recognizing an impasse.

I'm not at all concerned with what I cannot control. But I am concerned with what I and fellow pilots can directly control. We can apply pressure outside of the union and RLA.


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