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Originally Posted by FirstClass
(Post 2080706)
There is nothing that can be done to stop individual pilots from applying their will.
Your regional airline needs you to have a union, its their free police department to keep you in line. The union is your weakness, its what keeps you attached to the RLA, the topic of this thread. The company will unsuccessfully attempt to deal with pilots collectively, but there is no single structure to do so. It's why those animals in the middle east are so successful with their misdeeds- there is no central organization to deal with. You don't get to have it both ways. I would much rather engage alpa or lawyers and pay a $500 one time fee to negotiate a new contract when needed then cut them loose. You think labor lawyers work for a $500 one time fee? Try $500 per hour. If you hire cheap..... 500 of 1000 pilots cannot be fired for just doing their jobs extremely well, cannot be sued for just doing their jobs, there is no organization to sue, there is no organization to deal with. That's my argument.
Originally Posted by FirstClass
(Post 2080707)
Both of those cases had union involvement, something I am not advocating. The union is why you cannot strike, its tied to the RLA. Both the union and RLA are a rope around your neck. Simply rid yourself of both by eliminating the union.
"The employees have not voted to be represented by any union, so no labor union is involved. So far as the record shows, no one is authorized to speak for Popescu but Popescu himself, and the company's attempt to speak with him failed because he walked out and slammed the door. One of the adverse parties in this case is “Working Washington,” which is not a union, but a group that describes itself as “a coalition of individuals, neighborhood associations, immigrant groups, labor unions, civil rights organizations, and people of faith.” Working Washington's “Campaign Director” says that although Working Washington “is not seeking to become the bargaining representative” of the employees and has not sought recognition, it advocates for better treatment of workers at the airport." - See more at: AIRCRAFT SERVICE INTERNATIONAL INC v. INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS AFL CIO 117 | FindLaw Again, under the RLA, not having a union doesn't mean you can strike whenever you want. |
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
(Post 2080725)
Go ahead and try it. The courts have been clear--concerted activity, union or not, can be found be looking at changes in employee behavior from past records. Start writing up altimeters, adding 30 minutes to a 1 hour flight, sudden changes in sick calls will be found illegal self-help. I've almost doubled flight times JFK-MIA, flew TPA-MCO taking 40 minutes flying the procedure turn. None if this is new. Windshields? EA MX must have replaced half the 727's fleet windshields in 3 months. The Max Safety program very carefully unconnected to the union, but still charged with corrupt practices.
They'll just fine everybody. GF |
Originally Posted by FirstClass
(Post 2081052)
How much are they going to fine you? Charges have to be proven.
Then the company has to collect from pilots that make minimum wage. Then do you fine the f/o too? I'm assuming you're a fairly new guy with no experience in or knowledge of Union activity history. |
Originally Posted by Riverside
(Post 2078914)
"Are"
Filler |
Originally Posted by Packrat
(Post 2081079)
To "prove" any charge, all the Company has to do is show a change in behavior from their operational records. If the way you fly your jet some how changes (increased taxi times, longer leg times, etc.) they've got plenty of proof for legal action.
Either that or some other disciplinary action. And yes, they can get the F/O, too. I know of one specific case where two pilots were suspended because they flew a month of turns where the legs average 40-45 minutes longer than the rest of the fleet average. Your F/O is an accomplice to your wrong doing if he simply goes along with your "plan." I'm assuming you're a fairly new guy with no experience in or knowledge of Union activity history. |
Originally Posted by 272922
(Post 2080727)
No, there's not. But that's not the same as saying there are no consequences.
So one the one hand, your company needs you to have a union so they can be the company's enforcers. But on the other hand, the only reason that the "animals in the middle east are so successful with their misdeeds" is that there's no union. You don't get to have it both ways. BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! You think labor lawyers work for a $500 one time fee? Try $500 per hour. If you hire cheap..... So I guess all those pilots at VX and B6 are so dumb for giving up their right to strike because they put a union on property. And all those ten of thousands of pilots at AA, DAL, UAL, FDX, UPS, SWA, etc, etc, etc have done the exact same thing for decades. From the link that GF provided about ASI vs IBT: "The employees have not voted to be represented by any union, so no labor union is involved. So far as the record shows, no one is authorized to speak for Popescu but Popescu himself, and the company's attempt to speak with him failed because he walked out and slammed the door. One of the adverse parties in this case is “Working Washington,” which is not a union, but a group that describes itself as “a coalition of individuals, neighborhood associations, immigrant groups, labor unions, civil rights organizations, and people of faith.” Working Washington's “Campaign Director” says that although Working Washington “is not seeking to become the bargaining representative” of the employees and has not sought recognition, it advocates for better treatment of workers at the airport." - See more at: AIRCRAFT SERVICE INTERNATIONAL INC v. INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS AFL CIO 117 | FindLaw Again, under the RLA, not having a union doesn't mean you can strike whenever you want. Why would animals in the middle east need a union? I think you understand my point in that since there is no central authority, they cannot be properly dealt with collectively. But you knew that, you are just making this harder than it needs to be. Not $500 total (you are so precious I could just squeeze you). $500 per pilot to negotiate a contract. You know what needs done, its been done in the past, it can be done again now. It's a pilots market but yet you refuse to acknowledge it. You are not helping the cause. All you are doing is acknowledging the company can do anything they want and you can't do anything, that you are powerless. They can violate your contract at will, but you just have to take it. That sounds weak to me, a small simple and closed off mind. If I'm the only one that feels this way than this generation of pilots is in big trouble. You'll never have what the peers before you have today. |
Originally Posted by FirstClass
(Post 2081146)
Oh boy, where to even start with you. First, you need to grow a set. Don't be scared of every little thing.
I think you understand my point in that since there is no central authority, they cannot be properly dealt with collectively. But you knew that, you are just making this harder than it needs to be. Not $500 total (you are so precious I could just squeeze you). $500 per pilot to negotiate a contract. You know what needs done, its been done in the past, it can be done again now. It's a pilots market but yet you refuse to acknowledge it. |
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