Nothing to post, so I'll post this
#2
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: L188
Uh oh. Tell that drunk tool bag Parker to eff off. My AA capt buddy does all the time.
Btw, it's a joint PIC/Dispatcher decision. The dispatchers could simply "recommend" exxtra petrol and let the PIC decide.
I would take butte loads now just to show Parker and his monkeys whos in charge. But thats just me.
Btw, it's a joint PIC/Dispatcher decision. The dispatchers could simply "recommend" exxtra petrol and let the PIC decide.
I would take butte loads now just to show Parker and his monkeys whos in charge. But thats just me.
#3
Here's the article in case anyone else is running and adblocker like me.
As it brings fuel management guidelines to its regional partners, American Airlines is encountering resistance from the regional dispatchers, who don’t want to be disciplined if they add reserve fuel above recommended levels.
For decades, reserve fuel allocations have periodically been a point of contention, with unions for both pilots and dispatchers raising concerns that airlines too eagerly limit the amount of reserve fuel aircraft carry in the interest of reduced costs.
“At the regionals, the mainline carriers pay for fuel, but the operating carrier still has the final say on how much fuel is carried,” said Danny Persuit, president of Transport Workers Local 549, which represents about 800 dispatchers at American partners Horizon (part of Alaska); ExpressJet (part of SkyWest SKYW +%), Air Wisconsin, and Envoy.
More specifically, the Federal Aviation Administration entrusts fuel decisions jointly to pilots and dispatcher. As a result, Persuit said, “the mainline carriers have very little control in this process.” They would like to have more.
In recent months, an American Airlines representative has called on the airline’s regional partners, seeking to convince them to adopt the same fuel guidelines used at American’s mainline and wholly-owned regional operations, including Envoy.
The effort has caused conflict, Persuit said, because part of the methodology is that, “American started tracking each dispatcher’s fuel performance and publishing it for all the dispatchers.”
Now, he said, “regional airlines, at the direction of the mainline partners, are threatening and in some cases implementing disciplinary action against dispatchers for non-compliance.
“This can happen even in cases when the dispatchers’ flight planning software and the flight management system on the aircraft are not the same and the pilot asks for additional fuel,” Persuit said. In such cases, he said, “the dispatcher has to account for the additional fuel on the release, but will take a hit on fuel stats to do so.”
At the outer margins, fuel reserve guidelines can involve flight safety. But in fact, the outer margins are almost never approached. “As far as the number of times that anybody dips into reserves {which enable 75 minutes of flying}, it’s less than one tenth of 1 % of flights,” said American spokesman Casey Norton.
Given that each of the parties – airlines, pilots, and dispatchers – is firmly committed to safety, the debate tends to be a matter of jurisdiction: Who should make the call on fuel reserves?
It is reasonable to suggest that the very existence of the debate underscores the high level of safety achieved in U.S commercial aviation, which is perhaps the safest system of transportation in the history of the world. That is partially a result of labor’s influence.
American’s reserve fuel policy exceeds FAA requirements. American typically targets a reserve of 75 minutes of fuel upon arrival. The FAA minimum is 45 minutes, and American adds either 30 minutes or whatever is needed to reach the nearest diversion airport. At Philadelphia International Airport, which typically has just one runway available for landing, dispatchers tend to recommend 85 minutes of fuel, Persuit said.
When a pilot gets down to 45 minutes of fuel, Persuit said, “You are getting into the holy water.” Get down to 30 minutes, and a pilot would very possibly request an emergency landing.
In 2010, a dispute occurred when American — then operating under a different management team than it has today — sought to impose fuel guideline management on mainline operations.
“American Airlines is aggressively trying to reduce the amount of fuel remaining on board when a plane lands,” The Chicago Tribune reported at the time. “Its management {is sparring} with the airline’s pilots and dispatchers over who determines how much fuel a plane needs to reach its destination, a call traditionally made by the flight’s captain.”
American eventually dropped the effort. “The old insidious intimidation program, which demanded that pilots file reports to justifying her or his request for more fuel, no longer exists at the new American Airlines,” APA spokesman Dennis Tajer said Thursday.
“No matter the corporate cost savings program in effect, our captains by the authority and responsibility of their FAA license, in a partnership with our dispatchers, have the last and final say on ensuring the highest level of safety and reliability for every single flight,” Tajer said.
In 2012, the US Airways management team — which now runs American Airlines — sought to implement a fuel management program with US Airways dispatchers, Persuit said. “We had fuel management meetings, they disciplined one guy, we grieved it, and they stopped {the program},” he said.
American Airlines dispatchers had a fuel management program that included financial incentives for efficient fuel management. But the incentives are not part of a new contract, covering American and US Airways dispatchers, that takes effect this month, Persuit said. Rather, the new contract provides higher pay levels.
With the alterations sought by unions, American’s fuel management programs now seem to have been broadly accepted at the mainline and wholly owned regionals.
“Pilots and dispatchers now work together on this,” Norton said. “The decisions made at the mainline come down to a collaborative effort between the pilot and the dispatcher. Safety is paramount to everything we do.”
The program’s benefits include the environmental aspect. “We have been recognized as one of the best companies for green energy usage and reducing our carbon footprint,” he said.
Now, American wants to extend the guidelines to its regional partners. TWU is assuring that regional dispatchers have a voice in implementation.
For decades, reserve fuel allocations have periodically been a point of contention, with unions for both pilots and dispatchers raising concerns that airlines too eagerly limit the amount of reserve fuel aircraft carry in the interest of reduced costs.
“At the regionals, the mainline carriers pay for fuel, but the operating carrier still has the final say on how much fuel is carried,” said Danny Persuit, president of Transport Workers Local 549, which represents about 800 dispatchers at American partners Horizon (part of Alaska); ExpressJet (part of SkyWest SKYW +%), Air Wisconsin, and Envoy.
More specifically, the Federal Aviation Administration entrusts fuel decisions jointly to pilots and dispatcher. As a result, Persuit said, “the mainline carriers have very little control in this process.” They would like to have more.
In recent months, an American Airlines representative has called on the airline’s regional partners, seeking to convince them to adopt the same fuel guidelines used at American’s mainline and wholly-owned regional operations, including Envoy.
The effort has caused conflict, Persuit said, because part of the methodology is that, “American started tracking each dispatcher’s fuel performance and publishing it for all the dispatchers.”
Now, he said, “regional airlines, at the direction of the mainline partners, are threatening and in some cases implementing disciplinary action against dispatchers for non-compliance.
“This can happen even in cases when the dispatchers’ flight planning software and the flight management system on the aircraft are not the same and the pilot asks for additional fuel,” Persuit said. In such cases, he said, “the dispatcher has to account for the additional fuel on the release, but will take a hit on fuel stats to do so.”
At the outer margins, fuel reserve guidelines can involve flight safety. But in fact, the outer margins are almost never approached. “As far as the number of times that anybody dips into reserves {which enable 75 minutes of flying}, it’s less than one tenth of 1 % of flights,” said American spokesman Casey Norton.
Given that each of the parties – airlines, pilots, and dispatchers – is firmly committed to safety, the debate tends to be a matter of jurisdiction: Who should make the call on fuel reserves?
It is reasonable to suggest that the very existence of the debate underscores the high level of safety achieved in U.S commercial aviation, which is perhaps the safest system of transportation in the history of the world. That is partially a result of labor’s influence.
American’s reserve fuel policy exceeds FAA requirements. American typically targets a reserve of 75 minutes of fuel upon arrival. The FAA minimum is 45 minutes, and American adds either 30 minutes or whatever is needed to reach the nearest diversion airport. At Philadelphia International Airport, which typically has just one runway available for landing, dispatchers tend to recommend 85 minutes of fuel, Persuit said.
When a pilot gets down to 45 minutes of fuel, Persuit said, “You are getting into the holy water.” Get down to 30 minutes, and a pilot would very possibly request an emergency landing.
In 2010, a dispute occurred when American — then operating under a different management team than it has today — sought to impose fuel guideline management on mainline operations.
“American Airlines is aggressively trying to reduce the amount of fuel remaining on board when a plane lands,” The Chicago Tribune reported at the time. “Its management {is sparring} with the airline’s pilots and dispatchers over who determines how much fuel a plane needs to reach its destination, a call traditionally made by the flight’s captain.”
American eventually dropped the effort. “The old insidious intimidation program, which demanded that pilots file reports to justifying her or his request for more fuel, no longer exists at the new American Airlines,” APA spokesman Dennis Tajer said Thursday.
“No matter the corporate cost savings program in effect, our captains by the authority and responsibility of their FAA license, in a partnership with our dispatchers, have the last and final say on ensuring the highest level of safety and reliability for every single flight,” Tajer said.
In 2012, the US Airways management team — which now runs American Airlines — sought to implement a fuel management program with US Airways dispatchers, Persuit said. “We had fuel management meetings, they disciplined one guy, we grieved it, and they stopped {the program},” he said.
American Airlines dispatchers had a fuel management program that included financial incentives for efficient fuel management. But the incentives are not part of a new contract, covering American and US Airways dispatchers, that takes effect this month, Persuit said. Rather, the new contract provides higher pay levels.
With the alterations sought by unions, American’s fuel management programs now seem to have been broadly accepted at the mainline and wholly owned regionals.
“Pilots and dispatchers now work together on this,” Norton said. “The decisions made at the mainline come down to a collaborative effort between the pilot and the dispatcher. Safety is paramount to everything we do.”
The program’s benefits include the environmental aspect. “We have been recognized as one of the best companies for green energy usage and reducing our carbon footprint,” he said.
Now, American wants to extend the guidelines to its regional partners. TWU is assuring that regional dispatchers have a voice in implementation.
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
From: Feito no Brasil, CA
American eventually dropped the effort. “The old insidious intimidation program, which demanded that pilots file reports to justifying her or his request for more fuel, no longer exists at the new American Airlines,” APA spokesman Dennis Tajer said Thursday.
“No matter the corporate cost savings program in effect, our captains by the authority and responsibility of their FAA license, in a partnership with our dispatchers, have the last and final say on ensuring the highest level of safety and reliability for every single flight,” Tajer said.
“No matter the corporate cost savings program in effect, our captains by the authority and responsibility of their FAA license, in a partnership with our dispatchers, have the last and final say on ensuring the highest level of safety and reliability for every single flight,” Tajer said.
Do everything possible to push employees in a corner, but always leave the managers with a way out by saying it's the employee's responsibility.
#5
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Likes: 0
At the outer margins, fuel reserve guidelines can involve flight safety. But in fact, the outer margins are almost never approached. “As far as the number of times that anybody dips into reserves {which enable 75 minutes of flying}, it’s less than one tenth of 1 % of flights,” said American spokesman Casey Norton.
#8
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Until they say "I was only directed to put in XXXXX pounds". Then a call to the dispatcher is need. Eventually it is given to us but it is always not that easy. Plus the company will catch on if they are paying an extra 400Lbs more than the requested amount without being added to the release.
#9
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Can't say I've ever run into that problem, and I just don't care. We're getting the gas or we're not going to fly. 10 years at this sweatshop will make you like:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: "Additional fuel burn per 1,000 pounds payload is 13 pph." So on a 2 hour flight we're burning in the neighborhood of 2 extra gallons to add 500 pounds and not be in on the fringe of reserve fuel and having to "unable" speed restrictions above max economy. I thought everyone was making money right now.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: "Additional fuel burn per 1,000 pounds payload is 13 pph." So on a 2 hour flight we're burning in the neighborhood of 2 extra gallons to add 500 pounds and not be in on the fringe of reserve fuel and having to "unable" speed restrictions above max economy. I thought everyone was making money right now.
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