Republic or Endeavor?
 

Thanks for reading.

I've been going nuts trying to decide on which regional to got to. I've pretty much narrowed it down to Endeavor and Republic. I have a CJO from Endeavor currently and an interview with Republic later this month.

Here is what's important to me:

- NYC Base. EWR not an option. Endeavor has JFK and LGA. RAH only LGA. If RAH pulls out of LGA, it's quite undesirable. Endeavor is making a big push for NYC, which is great imo.

- Pay/work rules. Republic's contract has higher pay rates. Endeavor has the bonus. Delta could theoretically take that away at any point. An extra guaranteed day off at republic (12) instead of Endeavor's (11) would mean 1 more day per month to pick up open time at a higher pay rate. I don't know much about the "work rules," side of it, but I've "heard," that they're not as good at RAH.

- Stability. As far as I'm concerned, every regional has the same fate - no one ever knows what it is. However, looking at the current snapshot, Endeavor has the full support of Delta. They're a top performer and it doesn't seem like they're going anywhere. Current growth looks great. I've heard mixed things about the RAH bankruptcy. Some say it's been bloody, others say the future looks bright. The new AA deal confirms that they'll most likely pull through. It seems like an unnecessary risk though. Flying for all 3 legacies can be a good thing though?

Thanks for your comments. Thoughts? :eek:

TSA! We here a rdu base and you'll deadhead all the time LGA.

Delta can't just take away the bonus at any time, it's contractual through the end of 2018.

The bonus could not get taken away at any moment. It's a signed LOA by the union and company.

hahaha I'm well aware of the LGA flying at TSA! A friend of mine works there and we joke around all the time that she's LGA based.

Yeah, I realize that. But it's a lot easier for them to NOT continue the bonus moving forward then completely cutting the contract pay. Let's say the -200s aren't successful and they start parking them. Then there are way too many endeavor pilots and pay is already crap, and now bye bye bonus.

I know that's a lot of "what ifs," but still something to think about?

I am sorta debating between Endeavor, Piedmont, and Republic. I already have offers at the first two for when my 135 contract is up in Oct. I live in Allentown PA so the drive to NYC is 2 hours with no traffic and one for PHL. I have a family so QOL is important. I am leaning towards Endeavor because of the bonuses and better QOL. I dont know that I trust the flow carrot (pdt) or a airline in BK (rah).

Reason for me saying all that is do what is best for you. Alot of these places seem so close on pros/cons that its anyones guess what is best.

Yeah definitely trying to do what's best for me. Endeavor would definitely be that for me since I am substantially closer to JFK.

No, thats a weird train of thought (not that you're weird but that isnt how CBAs work). Now sure, the 200s might go away if gas goes up, in fact I think it's reasonable to say, yes they will go away in the future, right now we are getting pumped up with 200s, next year we will get more (supposedly).

Now if the 200s go away in 1.5 yrs, you'd have probably 600 or more pilots, under you if you started class in next couple months. We would still get paid the bonuses, except we'd furlough potentially. By then majors will be sucking up pilots so fast I think it more likely we will park 200s because they cant find the bodies to pilot them.

If you want to wait to pull trigger here you'd probably have some agreement in principle announced before the years end, if not a completely voted upon and granted new loa turning the bonuses into pay as a thanksgiving gift. Endeavor, the endeavor pilot union, and delta are all on the same page looking to end bonuses to create a pay rate that makes sense. Endeavor and Delta backed us pilots into this corner with backruptcy and understand the pilots are gonna squeeze them back. Delta isn't pretending they are going to go forward at this airline with a bargain pilot group. If they don't like it they can go pump up gojets and good luck. The truth is, non wholly owned regionals don't care about Delta flying, United and American pay very well to fly regionals around in comparison. Historically Delta pays the least and expects the most.

If you'd like to wait until the end of year to come here fine, I have a high confidence the bonuses will switch to pay because pilots at job fairs are freaking out about the loa with our retention bonus ending. Endeavor needs class sizes at 80 and 100 to make up for the failed hiring of 2014, 15, 16 and the 20% fail rate. Someone's going to scream we're above projections, and thats the opposite of what russ's memo says, read it again and use your fingers and toes. We hired less all year than we needed and we washed out 20%.

If you come here, though, understand you're probably gonna be in ny. Efbs will happened early next year (though idk if itll be feb or may) and jfk and lga will join into a co-base in exchange for MORE money to us. The operation is run like mainline, when I say operation I'm speaking about the airplane upkeep and SOC tools. Scheduling is a disaster, FAs are woefully underpaid for now, and the pilots should probably make more than we do now with all the customer service stuff delta expects from us rather than "encourages" of the other regionals. However, this will never be Delta, its just a regional, and you can move on to a mainline in 3-4 yrs most likely.

If you want to work hard, get paid well, and have the support from management to get passengers to hub asap then we are the best place to be,

*Applause*

Completely understand. In this market, any airline looking at shedding pilots would be nuts. We have a small but seemingly stable fleet of 200s for now, as other carriers look to operate more large RJs, we might end up being amongst the last of 50 seat feed for Delta. Even as a niche market, it will always exist. No where really offers a guarantee, but the vast majority I come across here at 9E are content.

RAH LGA base isn't going anywhere. Virtually all of the Delta flying flows through there and almost half of the delta birds overnight there each day. Additionally there's AA and UAL trips that originate there too.

+1 LGA isn't going anywhere.

It seems like an easy decision to me. Either go to a shrinking airline that adds per diem and medical premiums to look like they pay more than the really do. Or go to a growing airline with the highest pay in the industry, with bases you like and short upgrades. I'm not sure why this would be a hard decision for anyone.

Because today's best could be tomorrow's worst.

No dog in this fight, but if Endeavor wants to attract candidates they will have to match RAH rates after the bonuses expire. Which they will.

I'd go to Endeavor. Sounds like it's what you're looking for and you're trying to find reasons not to go.

Of course I'm biased towards endeavor, but the pay rate issue WILL be addressed before years end. The company is in negotiations now, it's all rumor at this point but it's looking like approximately a $19/hour raise to all the pay rates

I am also torn between Republic and Endeavor. I will be commuting so Ive been interested really in who has the most computable trips in LGA between Republic and Endeavor. I understand LGA seems to have a history of staying Junior with RAH. Is this correct?

NYC is traditionally junior at every airline with it as a base.

Trips change all the time so you're thinking way ahead of yourself.
Endeavor you can upgrade in less than a year and you will not sit rsv as of now.

I have friends sitting reserve in NYC on the 900 right now at endeavor. What makes you say no reserve?

It all depends on what plane, timing, completion of OE and the like. I sat two months of reserve in DTW200, had a classmate senior to me finish OE after and spend maybe two weeks on reserve.

With the growth in NYC especially 200, it's safe to say reserve will be short (but saying no reserve might be a stretch for some).

Interesting as I know of a few people sitting reserve right now at Endeavor and know someone who has been there over a year and is not close to upgrading yet.

I haven't been here a year and there were folks junior to me upgrading. Return to work with company time, but even that has been waived.

I would really love to know the full story there. One year since finishing IOE should put one close to upgrade, unless one is bidding P3 reserve, bidding MSP 900, out on leave, etc.

Go with the Wholly Owned... Delta isn't going out of business anytime soon. Preferential interview is nice as well.

Republic and the rest of the contract regionals have an uncertain future ahead...

The 900 moves a little slower. The 200 is growing fast so no rsv.

Yeah ... the more and more I think about it, the more that makes sense to me too!

Being owned by Delta means everything, just look how it turned out for Comair.

I thought about this a bit too. I researched the fall of Comair and from what it seems, the situations are completely different. While yes both Comair and Endeavor were/are wholly owned by Delta, the approach by Delta is completely different.

Comair was a successful company for many years and was able to turn large profits. However, post 9/11, things went sour everywhere. Delta's approach to running Comair was mostly laissez-faire, or hands off. They used an aging computer system which caused a crash during Christmas eve, which crippled the Delta network for days. Things just got worse from there and finally they pulled the plug.

Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan etc., had a similar fate, but the bankruptcy restructuring allowed them to emerge as a Delta WO'd, but this time, Delta took over everything, from checklists to uniforms, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current fate of Endeavor looks a lot brighter than that of Comair's, simply because of Delta's involvement with the company, which is the opposite of how they ran Comair.

Delta owned ASA at one point too, and decided to "unload" them. Who can say how things will end up?

Republic or Endeavor is a no brainer.....the one in bankruptcy or the highest paying regional with a faster upgrade?

So what will the argument be when republic is out of bankruptcy? People act like rpa is going out of business by years end as opposed to exiting bk.

Exactly. I refuse to live in NY, and would preferably not live in the North, me and the cold don't get along ;)
#FloridaProblems

Can anyone give some honest insight as to ACTUAL pay checks after taxes?

If you could kindly designate what is salary, bonus, and per diem. Trying to sift through a lot of garbage advertising and variables like tax rates, etc.
edit*: please include deductions for insurance coverage, etc.!

Additionally, the endeavor recruiter made a big deal about the quality of their "lines."

Republic, endeavor folks, what are your trips like? Imo, republic's flying looks a hell of a lot more fun, especially with all of that Caribbean stuff out of MIA.

I'm at Endeavor on the 200 out of Detroit. My 3 day trips are usually around 16 hours (guaranteed 12), 4 days at 21 hours (guaranteed 16), 5 days are around 28 (guaranteed 25). That's with a year of seniority. The nice thing is that we have true min days and 5 days are guaranteed 25. Keeps you from having really unproductive trips like some airlines.

As for pay, it's all over the board depending on if you pick up, what you choose to have withheld, etc. For me, I pick up a lot of open time. Anything picked up here is paid at a minimum of 150℅, but is often 200℅. I usually credit between 115-145 hours a month.

With that in mind here are my figures.

Little check (1st of the month): $1,125 gross, $900 net (1/2 guarantee)

Big check: ~$3500 gross, ~$2600 net (rest of flying, per diem)

Every 4 months is bonus check: $7666.68 gross, ~$4900 net

Works out to be an average of $6540 per month gross, $4725 net

Per year $78000, $56700 net


This is on first year pay and a lot of picking up, your mileage may vary.

I really appreciate you sharing the info!
With those trips, where exactly are you flying?

Those are some really good #'s. How many days off did you have with all of that? Kudos on working hard man.

Every little town, burg and vile between Minot and Bangor, north of Atlanta. (This is a gross simplification, but it gets the point across)

Those numbers are spot on for many that I'm flying with."when they tell me" Fo's here are making $$$$ and lots of it

Think of a city that has air service in the Midwest or east coast. We fly there.

The 900 has more variety but honestly where you overnight isn't a big deal and shouldn't be a factor on where you go.

I am getting about 17 days off a month right now before I pick up, after I pick up I average around 10 but I live in base so I don't mind.