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B-17/P-63 Collision

Old 11-12-2022, 02:19 PM
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Default B-17/P-63 Collision

A B-17 collided with a P-63 in Dallas at the Wings over Dallas airshow this afternoon.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/12/u...ion/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...show-rcna56920
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Old 11-12-2022, 02:22 PM
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https://twitter.com/jasonwhitely/sta...41681798668291
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Old 11-12-2022, 02:36 PM
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Absolutely horrific to watch.

I do not know if they were active or retired, but my condolences to UAL for the loss of 3 pilots. My parents are retired UAL, so this hits home.
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Old 11-12-2022, 04:59 PM
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Iím sickÖ..
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Old 11-12-2022, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER View Post
Iím sickÖ..
two recently retired AA captains among the fatalities.
rest in peace.
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Old 11-12-2022, 06:30 PM
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There are no words for this horrific tragedy. It's made a little more eerie as 21 years ago today was the AA 587 crash into Belle Harbor, Queens shortly after taking off from JFK.
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Old 11-12-2022, 08:56 PM
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There's always something that happened 21 years ago today. Or five years. or ten, or a hundred.

Turning, descending turn in a low-wing airplane to join traffic. Familiar to us all.

Not the time to break it down, but my first thought before the sequence started, initial shots of the sky full of airplanes in different positions, headings, altitudes, climbing and descending was a recipe for busted beaks.

CAF has a bit of a history of mishaps; far more than should occur, given the limited hours they fly. That's not pointing fingers, but the aircraft are crewed by those who paid to be there, and who do it part time as a hobby, for the most part. Call it links in the chain, swiss cheese, whatever. Add together possibilities and it's not a linear chain where one weak link may lead to the mishap, but an exponential increase in risk. Add to it a public display, dissimilar aircraft, and various and sundry factors, and the risk level certainly goes up. It's easy enough to stand back in the cheap seat and reference altitude assignments, sequencing, rehearsal, speed assignments, and so on, but I wasn't there for the briefing, and critique and guesswork is not appropriate. The world will come down at some point.

Events like this are unfortunate for the loss of the experienced aviators at the controls, and for the rare, irreplaceable historical relics that are lost. It's tragic for the experience of the viewers, for the loss of the families (who will be exposed to those videos and images countless times), and to the community in general.

The finger pointing and guessing will start soon enough. I'll simply say that we have all been there, at some point, when we were surprised, or something unplanned occurred, or we had an experience that may have turned out quite differently, and any one of us could have been any of those involved in this mishap: there before the grace, go we all.

Any who say differently have either not yet made it around the block for the fist time, or are liars. It's a small world. It affects us all, and in the truth is, it could have been any one of us. I cringe at the first idiot to spout off with a platitude such as "at least they died doing something they loved," but someone will say it, sure enough. I doubt any of them loved going down in flame. Most of us share a common phobia: we dont' want to be the one to be the cause. If you happen to be one of the many who has been there and done that, then you know the mistakes you've made, and you know the price that you lucked out of paying, and you know it could have been you, and for that reason, if no other, we can sympathize and commiserate and know that whether we knew them or not, all share a bond. This business comes with great rewards, and carries stiff penalties. It's sad to see them paid, but the lessons bought here with blood may save another. We can only hope.

Nickles, condolences, and tailwinds.
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Old 11-13-2022, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
A B-17 collided with a P-63 in Dallas at the Wings over Dallas airshow this afternoon.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/12/u...ion/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...show-rcna56920
Pretty sure the B-17 got hit by the P-63, not the way you make it sound.

Condolences to the families and friends.

https://twitter.com/Johnson4Dallas/s...XiBgVhmNiK4n2w

.
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Old 11-13-2022, 03:46 AM
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From the videos I've seen and the ADS-B hits I could find, it looks like the P-63 was supposed to be joining up with another group of fighters ahead and to his left. Went way wide, and hit the B-17 from behind.

Poor guys never knew what hit them. P-63 likely didn't until it was too late, belly to the 17, not sure how good/bad the visibility below and forward is on the 63, but he was likely looking at the other fighters he was trying to join.

Something like a 70 knot speed differential.
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Old 11-13-2022, 04:23 AM
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Crazy abrupt vertical move by the Cobra at the last second, Reminiscent of the Mustang crash at Reno, where he lost elevator control. Still they were too close. What was the Air Boss doing?
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