JohnBurke

Design flaw?

The FAA has stated, in the language of the AD, that the autothrottle must not be engaged, or re-engaged, after the thrust levers are advanced to the takeoff setting, until at least 400' AGL. Not really that complicated.

Imagine actually having to do pilot **** in an airplane. Imagine actually having to fly the damn airplane. God god, what were they thinking?

If the autothrottle isn't engaged for takeoff, or disengages, it is NOT the end of the world. Two pilots. One flying. Another who really can ensure that takeoff thrust is set. If the autothrottle isn't engaged or disengages, focusing on re-engaging it during the takeoff roll is idiotic. Fly the god damn airplane.

This shouldn't be an issue, but not because the buttons are too close together, or because there is a perceived design flaw. It shouldn't be an issue because the operator needs to hire pilots, rather than mere button-pushers who can't continue the takeoff with manual throttle manipulation. Are we really so short of competent aviators that there are those who can't continue or conduct a takeoff without stabbing the automation during the takeoff roll? This isn't an airplane design flaw: it's a pilot flaw.

PNWFlyer

Yet many still say the MAX had a design flaw, despite being completely flyable.

Just wish the FAA would be consistent. They are just going tell the pilots not to screw up. What is dangerous about this is the fact this was US crews that screwed it up the most. Wait until an airline of real hard core button pushers get it.

JohnBurke

Both the max crashes were entirely preventable events that spoke directly to poor airmanship. The right seat pilot at Ethiopian didn't even have a pilot certificate, like a number of pilots at Ethiopian. Think hard about that one.

dera

Not sure what you are getting into with this? The FO at Ethiopian held a CPL issued in 2018.

Texasbound

According to who? Preliminary reports are not factual. Guess we will have to wait for the final report. Whenever that will be.

dera

I'll take the prelim all day long as a source over some guy on the internet.
Unless you know something more, I haven't really followed it.

JohnBurke

Ethiopian and the authority there issue their own certificate, which is not actually a pilot certificate, and is not ICAO -recognized. They pay native pilots a fraction of what foreign pilots make, and they use and abuse them. One of the controls that enable them to do this is the certification they're given is their own...the pilots cant' go somewhere else and convert it, or use it anywhere else. The first officer on the Ethiopian 737 Max mishap was not a certificated pilot. Ethiopia has minimal regulation and no enforcement. Duty and rest rules are nil. Abuse of crew is well known and the norm, there. Ethiopian is about profit, bar nothing. The CAA looks the other way on everything. Corruption is rampant on the government side, and on the company side of the house.

rickair7777

I understand that their SIC license is not up to ICAO standards. Are you saying that it involves no actual flight training? Ie the SIC is only trained to operate gear, flaps, and radios and the PIC does all actual flying?

JohnBurke

I did not say that. Had I intended, I would have said that.

The SIC on the Ethiopian 737 Max flight, while deemed qualified by Ethiopian government and airline standards, would not be considered qualified anywhere else on the planet.

The PIC was an upgraded SIC. Take from that what you will. The results speak for themselves. If you want to dig a little deeper, you'll find that Ethiopian has an extremely high rate of mishaps and while African flying is not cruising main, the rate of incidents by Ethiopian operators is unacceptably high, and the results of the max incident, not all that surprising.

Temper that by the insight that personnel at Ethiopian, particularly native flyers are universally afraid to speak up due to the abuse and punishment on every level. Fatigue is common, with "dispensations" granted universally to operate beyond legality; legal duty times and rest requirements have no meaning.

A high percentage of expats who go there end up leaving within the first year, and most simply take leave and dont' go back, because resignation is punished.

It's not your uncle's airline.

TransWorld

Agreed, John. There are other second and third world countries that would be in similar position to Ethiopian. They are far, far from standards and requirements in the US, or other first world countries and airlines.