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-   -   Another "near miss" at AUS (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/141511-another-near-miss-aus.html)

dera 02-05-2023 04:32 PM

Controller needs a refresher on when to clear a plane into the ILS critical area when you are running CATII ops.

rickair7777 02-05-2023 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by pangolin (Post 3586345)
FedEx called the SWA abort. Awesome SA from
FedEx. If SWA had taken off the FedEx go around would have been interesting. FedEx saved this all the way.

TCAS RA might have been inhibited.

rickair7777 02-05-2023 04:44 PM


Originally Posted by game (Post 3586482)
Poor SA and ADM by the WN crew. They requested — and then accepted!!!— the takeoff clearance. Glad I’m not that CA. He/She will be in some VERY hot water for this.

I didn't hear SW request the TO, but it might have happened before that audio clip started.

Poor SA and ADM yes, but technically once cleared he owned the runway so ultimately it was ATC and FDXs problem. I'd guess the tower might get in trouble since he actually did not specify "no delay" and probably shouldn't have issued the clearance under those conditions. But pizza parties... old habits die hard. Yes SWA should have known not to delay. ATC may be in the habit of relying on SWA to not delay.

rickair7777 02-05-2023 04:48 PM


Originally Posted by pangolin (Post 3586626)
Takeoff if those conditions can take a minute.

That's true, might have taken a moment to double-check the setup.

Boeingdude 02-05-2023 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by game (Post 3586482)
Poor SA and ADM by the WN crew. They requested — and then accepted!!!— the takeoff clearance. Glad I’m not that CA. He/She will be in some VERY hot water for this.

Which FAR's are you referring to, or is it in the AIM?

Boeingdude 02-05-2023 05:10 PM

Southwest abort, with no call sign, and past a certain speed, in low visibility, Hmm.

pangolin 02-05-2023 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3586657)
That's true, might have taken a moment to double-check the setup.

If they had type 4 and I assume they did they would not have configured for takeoff until on the runway. I don’t know SWA procedures for low vis takeoff but I assume like other airlines it’s no checklists unless stopped and standing takeoff. Those three things alone account for the time it took to roll. Fault 1 - issuing SWA a takeoff clearance at all. SWA did not fail for telling the controller they were ready. Mini fault 2 - accepting the TO clearance when you know someone is on the ils in a low vis environment. Task saturated pilots read back WITHOUT processing. They may not have added one and one because of this. That’s why I say Mini fault. Kudos to purple for the go around and I understand their requesting SWA abort was questionable but understandable as they would come close in a go around. Should they have said it? Probably not.

rickair7777 02-05-2023 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3586406)
I wonder if SWA was in a hurry to meet a holdover time? Weather was FZFG at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=de...zZsXPDyj72s1Gg

This audio includes SWA checking in with tower, they simply advised ready to go. I did not sense a rush vibe, and they didn't even ask if they could get out before the heavy, they just checked in ready. If they had just switched over from ground, they might not have even heard tower clear FDX.

rickair7777 02-05-2023 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by hvydriver (Post 3586281)
I dunno. I’d say 25’ counts as “pretty close”.

WSJ reporting they came within 1000'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=de...zZsXPDyj72s1Gg

AirBear 02-05-2023 06:20 PM

VASAviation has done a video on this with animation:

https://youtu.be/DjoDn8zQgb8

I had said in my initial post it didn't sound like a close call. Boy was I wrong. I'm guessing ATC will take the brunt of the blame for this. The SWA pilots may get a "WTF" call from the CP but I don't think they broke any FAR's.


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