![Alaska SNA [MLG Failure]](/iconimages/safety/alaska-sna-mlg-failure_ltr.gif)
Alaska SNA [MLG Failure]
08-22-2023, 01:28 PM
#31
What's a weekend?
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Widget FO
Posts: 457
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Rate of decent on an approach is purely a function of ground speed and the glideslope angle. Flaps only change that if they change the approach speed. Generally more flaps equals a reduced speed that would correspond to a reduced required rate of decent. At 130 knots groundspeed a 3 degree glideslope requires about 650 FPM rate of decent. Easy rule of thumb for cross check is groundspeed times 5 equals rate of decent for a standard 3 degree glideslope. 1000 to 1500 is outside stabilized approach criteria and would require a go around. Transport category aircraft are normally required to withstand a 600 FPM touchdown with no side loads for certification purposes. Your mileage might very on an older airframe with a touch of side loading. I can attest as can any carrier pilot that a 700 FPM touchdown is very firm!
08-22-2023, 01:41 PM
#32
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,643
Originally Posted by Arctichicken
Really? It's because it's text book landing procedure. I've flown several small GA aircraft and military trainers & heavies, all of which land with power at idle. I land all of our 73 variants (400 when it was around, 700, 800, 900, 900ER, and MAX) the same with slight differences in each. Even if I decide to drive it in, I still pull the throttles to idle before touching down. Power-on landings, here at Alaska and in the Air Force (at least when I was in), is not normal ops.
08-22-2023, 01:45 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,724
I started flying the '75 in there in '87 (Back when they towed you to the runway) It was a crummy then, I guess not much has changed. I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents. High wind, night, heavy rain, no thanks.
08-22-2023, 02:02 PM
#34
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,084
Originally Posted by three1five
Ever flown a MAX or just taking anonymous internet potshots?
If you got your cadence wrong that sum********* would arrive like a lead sled.
Capt be like:
08-22-2023, 02:10 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 59
Does anyone else think the fact Alaska, to my knowledge, who for some absolutely unknown reason has disabled RA call-outs on their jets could have possibly prevented this if they had those calls and it was indeed a hard landing that caused this? Boggles my mind you guys don’t have this. Seems to be standard on every other passenger jet on earth. Hell even the clapped out old CRJ I used to fly had it.
I sure as heck find it helpful to hear the cadence of 50,40,30…and find the situational awareness it provides priceless. If I’m coming in a bit hot and heavy at night or poor visibility and those call-outs start speeding up I am immediately aware something needs to be adjusted.
Again, I’m not saying this would have prevented this incident but seems insane to purposely have it disabled when it can help prevent such things and provide a huge increase in situational awareness.
I sure as heck find it helpful to hear the cadence of 50,40,30…and find the situational awareness it provides priceless. If I’m coming in a bit hot and heavy at night or poor visibility and those call-outs start speeding up I am immediately aware something needs to be adjusted.
Again, I’m not saying this would have prevented this incident but seems insane to purposely have it disabled when it can help prevent such things and provide a huge increase in situational awareness.
08-22-2023, 02:51 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by thaddiusMbuggs
Does anyone else think the fact Alaska, to my knowledge, who for some absolutely unknown reason has disabled RA call-outs on their jets could have possibly prevented this if they had those calls and it was indeed a hard landing that caused this? Boggles my mind you guys don’t have this. Seems to be standard on every other passenger jet on earth. Hell even the clapped out old CRJ I used to fly had it.
I sure as heck find it helpful to hear the cadence of 50,40,30…and find the situational awareness it provides priceless. If I’m coming in a bit hot and heavy at night or poor visibility and those call-outs start speeding up I am immediately aware something needs to be adjusted.
Again, I’m not saying this would have prevented this incident but seems insane to purposely have it disabled when it can help prevent such things and provide a huge increase in situational awareness.
I sure as heck find it helpful to hear the cadence of 50,40,30…and find the situational awareness it provides priceless. If I’m coming in a bit hot and heavy at night or poor visibility and those call-outs start speeding up I am immediately aware something needs to be adjusted.
Again, I’m not saying this would have prevented this incident but seems insane to purposely have it disabled when it can help prevent such things and provide a huge increase in situational awareness.
08-22-2023, 03:01 PM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 38
08-22-2023, 03:44 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2020
Posts: 266
Originally Posted by flysnoopy76
Great point, not saying it’s the reason this happened, but totally agree it’s absurd we don’t have it. I’ve heard several excuses why we don’t, ranging from simply “we don’t need it” to it would mess with autolands, or “well you can see the RA in the HUD”. It’s probably because it would cost a couple dollars per plane to turn it on.
Jumpseat on AS from time to time and it’s always been something that had me confused as to why they wouldn’t be using the call-outs on their Boeings. Frankly I’m amazed the FAA doesn’t require it as stock standard on a jet flying 121 ops. The safety margin such a system provides can be enormous as well as just a huge boost to situational awareness as was previously mentioned.
I find it very hard to believe it would interfere with autoland or anything else, every other operator seems to manage with no problems. Glad the crew and pax all walked away from it.
08-22-2023, 04:17 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: 737 tiller master
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by PorkyMcFuzz
The radio altimeter thing came to my mind as well as soon as I saw this.
Jumpseat on AS from time to time and it’s always been something that had me confused as to why they wouldn’t be using the call-outs on their Boeings. Frankly I’m amazed the FAA doesn’t require it as stock standard on a jet flying 121 ops. The safety margin such a system provides can be enormous as well as just a huge boost to situational awareness as was previously mentioned.
I find it very hard to believe it would interfere with autoland or anything else, every other operator seems to manage with no problems. Glad the crew and pax all walked away from it.
Jumpseat on AS from time to time and it’s always been something that had me confused as to why they wouldn’t be using the call-outs on their Boeings. Frankly I’m amazed the FAA doesn’t require it as stock standard on a jet flying 121 ops. The safety margin such a system provides can be enormous as well as just a huge boost to situational awareness as was previously mentioned.
I find it very hard to believe it would interfere with autoland or anything else, every other operator seems to manage with no problems. Glad the crew and pax all walked away from it.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
