https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=de...hxi6kHtMqqirOQ

 

Didn't watch, uhhh, just read the title? What?

 

Controller was WAY out of line for saying "don't you dare go around". There's an oversight agency called AOV that is to ATC like Flight Standards is to 121/135. I'm sure they are handling it. The pilots also need to be assertive and just say they are going around. The controller can pout and have a bad day, but that's fine with any pilot that goes around because they feel it is necessary, it shouldn't ruin the pilot's day.

 

Controller may be *allowed* to land aircraft with 3000' separation on the pavement but that doesn't mean any pilot has to accept that, ever. Yes, way out of line.

 

The "control" in Air Traffic Control does not mean what she thinks it means.

The "command" in Pilot in Command does not mean what he thinks it means.

They both need to get a clue, before they kill someonebody.

Weak pilot, and weak controller, neither of whom understand their jobs.

 

Meh. Back in the day (1980s) at DCA, we denied go-arounds probably three or four times a year. It was always because the landing pilot didn't think there was enough separation from the departure in front of him. Nothing ever came of it, but there was no such thing as Youtube back then!

In this case, fortunately, it all turned out okay, so the lesson(s) are free.

Something to consider: either the pilot didn't know reduced runway separation is allowed at towered airports, indicating a gap in his training, or... he sincerely had a preference or opspec to not participate in it. If the latter is the case, short final is much too late to advise ATC.

 

One doesn't request a go-around.

One executes it.

 

Just a cursorary check of the AIM, PHAK and references listed in the ACS don't seem to make any mention of this, so if that is true, there would in fact be no gap in the pilot's training. The ATO JO is not part of the ACS. JB says it correctly.

 

While ATC may have an option to clear aircraft to land on an occupied runway, a pilot is never, ever required to actually land in such circumstances, or any other circumstances where he's not comfortable doing so.

Kind of like LAHSO, except that with LAHSO we get advance warning so we have time to do the required calculations to ensure safety before we decide to accept.

As far as training, we are never trained to land on an occupied runway, except multi-ship fighter formations (I think they're actually moving away from that?) and maybe aerobatic performers. It's not in the lexicon for most GA or 121 pilots.

 

Pretty damn casual with authority that belongs to the Pilot in Command, and only the pilot in command, and that cannot be overridden by any other authority on earth.

You may have told someone they couldn't go around. You never had the authority to deny a go-around. That authority and that decision rests with the pilot in command. ATC has never had that authority, and never will.

When the controller makes a bad decision the controller goes home at the end of the day and thinks about it.

When the pilot makes a bad decision, others remember him over a beer. There's a reason that authority rests with the pilot in command.

It doesn't sound like you learned anything, and simply because you didn't get in trouble and nobody got hurt, doesn't mean "the lesson is free."

Have you ever had a big 450,000 lb chunk of metal come to a grinding halt on the runway in front of you, as you're preparing to land? No?

I used to fly a 747 that had a history of unexpectedly, occasionally, defaulting to max autobrakes, even though not selected, and when light, the speed at which that airplane could slow to nothing was impressive. That distance ahead, while legal for a controller, does not make for safe for a pilot, especially when the aircraft ahead does not get off the runway, or stops on the runway.

Ever had anything unexpected happen on the runway? While you were watching, or participating? I've had aircraft parts separate, a wheel come off, a brake catch fire, compressor stalls that blew flame past the cockpit, and engine that defecated the mattress so badly the tower cab felt the concussion through the floor, and a few other moments over the years, and I've been along for the ride when a number of other things happened, such as a horse entering the runway, and once, a very large bumblebee emerged next to a pilot who was very allergic, and he changed his entire focus to the bee (have actually had that happen twice). A hydraulic line failure that misted the interior in H5606. A cockpit fire, and so on. Explosions on and next to the runway thanks to rockets, mortars, and mines. An explosion that burned off all the belly skin for the aft third of the airplane, back through the tail. Things happen. These may cause a change in the landing distance or plan.

Unless I have pre-briefed the arrival and landing with reduced separation, with the other aircraft, or it's part of a known operation, I'm not going to permit that landing with an aircraft on the runway, and I'm not going to be tolerant at all of being told I can't go around, or pressured, cajoled, threatened, or intimidated by a controller. There will be words. And reports. Do your job, but don't remotely consider doing mine. We work together; let's keep it that way, and I'll refrain from doing your job, too.

Putting another aircraft too close is very unwise. We don't have to look past Tenneriffe to see that the biggest loss of life in a runway incursion occurred when two aircraft attempted to use the runway at the same time, and one wasn't off. That airplane ahead might stop suddenly for any number of reasons, and the pilot who compromises his authority and better judgement and lands, may not be able to go around thanks to autobrake or spoiler deployment, distance to the impending obstacle, engine spool time, and a host of other factors, not the least of which is reaction time. There is no valid reason to paint one's self into a corner. The controller in this case, who chided the pilot, reminded me of the controller we've all listened to ad nauseum, from Providence, who did her best to cause a crash in the fog. She lost her job, rightfully so.

https://youtu.be/V7AP-8uZWxA