The Cargo Cutout
12-21-2011, 06:51 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
The rule as written was not good for long haul cargo. WHOA...before you shoot me, let me explain. For operators like FedEx, UPS, Atlas, Connie, Omni, Southern and others who go long haul through many (read more than 2-4 time zones), the rule as written would screw us due to the requirements of acclimatization to the local time zone.
What that would mean is that in terms of rest, they would give it to us. They would then, because of the rules and scheduling, screw us in terms of scheduling and lost wages. Further, because of the rules, they could and would keep us out on the road a heck of a lot longer than they already try to. And who among us really believes that scheduling will "work with you?"
What we have now is a window of opportunity for all cargo and supplemental groups to get together and figure out a framework of rules that may not perfectly fit each carrier, but give us a stronger baseline to stand in unity and fight for.
12 hours of flying is not necessarily 12 hours of flying. Add in a few time zones, crossing from Europe to Hong Kong, or Dubai back to the states...and it's even worse. We need better.
Until then, the best rule is, as some have already said, "I am fatigued and going to the hotel for uninterrupted rest. I'll call you."
And then set the brakes.
What that would mean is that in terms of rest, they would give it to us. They would then, because of the rules and scheduling, screw us in terms of scheduling and lost wages. Further, because of the rules, they could and would keep us out on the road a heck of a lot longer than they already try to. And who among us really believes that scheduling will "work with you?"
What we have now is a window of opportunity for all cargo and supplemental groups to get together and figure out a framework of rules that may not perfectly fit each carrier, but give us a stronger baseline to stand in unity and fight for.
12 hours of flying is not necessarily 12 hours of flying. Add in a few time zones, crossing from Europe to Hong Kong, or Dubai back to the states...and it's even worse. We need better.
Until then, the best rule is, as some have already said, "I am fatigued and going to the hotel for uninterrupted rest. I'll call you."
And then set the brakes.
12-21-2011, 06:59 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: headbanging
Posts: 954
Originally Posted by albief15
chew on this....
you need to pay me more…..because i work longer hours and fly much more productive and rigorous schedules than those pax pilots…
you need to pay me more….because i work in a much less safe environment than those other pilots and am less insulated from the risks of fatigue and circadian issues… cargo pilots are working harder than pax pilots at night as we share the same airspace. As we fly over and around each other in the night skies, you can rest comfortably knowing all those ups pilots and other supplemental operators that are “used to working at night” will be stumbling working on that “second level of safety” that “is not cost effective to fix”. We will have to work even harder to keep our working space safe, and we will. But it will cost you.
you need to provide me better health care, vacation, and benefits…because i will not be as rested, nor will i have the protections afforded our pax brethren, and the toll on my health will be higher at my second level of safety. I am forced to work harder to make sure i am safe, rested and ready, and i will be. That will require a certain amount of time off and the guarantee i can take care of the my health needs—both mental and physical—because it is harder working at this second tier of safety.
you need to provide my family superior insurance and benefits…because i fly cargo that is not always screened (too costly) for security threats, and since we fly lithium batteries and other hazardous cargo routinely that has been proven to be deadly at times to aircraft, we understand that many times in our industry the bottom line trumps safety. it does not, however, trump the requirement to take care of our families. therefore we require industry leading insurance so we can fly knowing our families will be okay in the event of our demise burning up over the north pacific or halfway across the atlantic ocean.
so—yeah—i agree we are “different” is cargo. We work harder. We make more profit. We have a much more dangerous work environment. Therefore, our compensation going forward has absolutely, positively nothing to do with what else happens on the passenger side of the industry. Their pay, benefits, and concessionary contracts have zero to do with us. After all, we are “different”.
And that difference, my friends, makes all of us worth a lot more money…. So, keep your new work rules. But the industry better reach for their wallet, because they just demonstrated to us that this is all about the dollars, not safety. And we speak that language too…
you need to pay me more…..because i work longer hours and fly much more productive and rigorous schedules than those pax pilots…
you need to pay me more….because i work in a much less safe environment than those other pilots and am less insulated from the risks of fatigue and circadian issues… cargo pilots are working harder than pax pilots at night as we share the same airspace. As we fly over and around each other in the night skies, you can rest comfortably knowing all those ups pilots and other supplemental operators that are “used to working at night” will be stumbling working on that “second level of safety” that “is not cost effective to fix”. We will have to work even harder to keep our working space safe, and we will. But it will cost you.
you need to provide me better health care, vacation, and benefits…because i will not be as rested, nor will i have the protections afforded our pax brethren, and the toll on my health will be higher at my second level of safety. I am forced to work harder to make sure i am safe, rested and ready, and i will be. That will require a certain amount of time off and the guarantee i can take care of the my health needs—both mental and physical—because it is harder working at this second tier of safety.
you need to provide my family superior insurance and benefits…because i fly cargo that is not always screened (too costly) for security threats, and since we fly lithium batteries and other hazardous cargo routinely that has been proven to be deadly at times to aircraft, we understand that many times in our industry the bottom line trumps safety. it does not, however, trump the requirement to take care of our families. therefore we require industry leading insurance so we can fly knowing our families will be okay in the event of our demise burning up over the north pacific or halfway across the atlantic ocean.
so—yeah—i agree we are “different” is cargo. We work harder. We make more profit. We have a much more dangerous work environment. Therefore, our compensation going forward has absolutely, positively nothing to do with what else happens on the passenger side of the industry. Their pay, benefits, and concessionary contracts have zero to do with us. After all, we are “different”.
And that difference, my friends, makes all of us worth a lot more money…. So, keep your new work rules. But the industry better reach for their wallet, because they just demonstrated to us that this is all about the dollars, not safety. And we speak that language too…
12-21-2011, 07:17 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 FO FDX, C130 ANG
Posts: 538
Watch the company try and cherry pick certain portions of the new rules that actually help the bottom line and keep intact the old rules where they see fit. "All in the interest of safety" we need to be on top of this. This isn't over IMO.
12-22-2011, 06:11 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by USN2FEDEX
"Today's pilot fatigue rule release marks historic progress in what must be an unrelenting commitment to ensuring the highest safety standards throughout the airline industry. The Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l (ALPA), is gratified that the Department of Transportation and the Federal Aviation Administration have delivered on their pledge, and a Congressional mandate, to issue new flight- and duty-time regulations and minimum rest requirements for airline pilots," said Capt. Lee Moak, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, an independent aviation safety organization.
Not sure why ALPA didn't take the opportunity to make a stance on ONE LEVEL OF SAFETY.
Perhaps this is all that got quoted in the article - but I think they should have been very thorough in ensuring that the concept of one level of safety for all members of ALPA was stressed. From top to bottom.
Not sure why ALPA didn't take the opportunity to make a stance on ONE LEVEL OF SAFETY.
Perhaps this is all that got quoted in the article - but I think they should have been very thorough in ensuring that the concept of one level of safety for all members of ALPA was stressed. From top to bottom.
"While these new regulations are an improvement over the current flight and duty regulations, ALPA’s leaders are disappointed that cargo operations are being allowed to continue under the old rules, which lack the science-based foundation of the new regulations. ALPA is committed to One Level of Safety and will continue to work to include cargo operations in these new regulations. The new rule does not preclude cargo airlines from voluntarily following and implementing these new regulations, and ALPA calls on ALL airlines to implement and operate to the new, improved standards."
12-22-2011, 07:27 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B-757 Capt.
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by olly
Albief for NC Chair!! Well said, and "those" talking points should be our unequivocal stand.
Very Well stated!!!!
Very Well stated!!!!
Albie , any chance we can get you to submit your post to the LEC, MEC, NC et al??
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
