Pragmatic1

I'm not blind to facts. That's why I asked you to present some to possibly change my view. I'm still waiting . I provided you with prime examples why I choose not to support the GOP and their obvious effort to reduce the power of unions. That is not good for my personal well being and the pragmatic thing to do is to go with the party anathema to these goals. I'm not projecting my decision onto others. Thus the reason I used the pronoun "I." Each person must decide what's in his or her best interest. That's freedom.

I must say it strikes of irony when the man who quotes P.T. Barnum and writes things like "Smelly human derelicts", "retailer in chief", "Troop of baboons" and "Free hopium" is cautioning me on political rants that might get me "some time out in the corner." Funny stuff....Yet somehow I'm the one with the blind political allegiance...

jungle

You have devoted your entire history of posts here desperately trying to sell us on a particular brand of snake oil, I am merely pointing out that snake oil is not a curative but in fact a cause of the human misery you display here so often.
I am neutral and hate all snake oil equally for it both lacks truth and substance and has in general proved harmful.

You seem to be unable to understand that my refusal to buy your brand of snake oil does not mean I buy any other brand of snake oil, in fact I reject them all, that is why you don't see me trying to sell a brand here-unlike yourself.

In addition, the owners of this site don't intend it to be used as a sales point for snake oil of any brand. You are of course free to purchase and consume any brand or quantity you so desire at whatever price the market will bear, we just ask that you not feel the need to share it or force it down our throats no matter what the quality of illusion it seems to provide for you.

I must add that your rants provide all the amusement of a three year old describing the power of a favorite stuffed critter to ward off evil spirits.

Just ask any pilot or other professional who has ridden this horse for thirty years or more, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Pragmatic1

You seem intent on making this personal. This is not personal for me and I find your continued use of pejoratives somewhat puerile in nature. How exactly does speak of "snake oils and stuffed critters" advance your position? I believe the purpose of this site is to discuss airline issues. Unions and regulations play a critical role in this industry and are subject to political forces. Unfortunately, there are only two choices in our political arena. You believe that there is no difference between political parties on the union/regulation issue. I believe, based on current events, there is. I'm simply presenting the facts as I see them. I hoped you would present some facts to dispute my position but instead you resort to polemics. The GOP zeitgeist is anti-union and anti-regulation. They are not reticent on this issue and eagerly display their malevolence towards unions. That alone shows a difference between the parties. Most of us are not one issue voters, but unions and regulation impact my quality of life. For me, this is a cause for pause when considering support of the party intent on reducing the power of both. I've made no comments with respect to the GOP/DEM outside of the unions/reg issues which are central to discussions about the airline industry. Our ability to craft pro-pilot legislation is dependent on making the right political choices. This is by no means an imprimatur for the Democratic party. Only the fact they are currently the lessor of two evils on the union/reg issue given the current assault on collective bargaining rights and regulation by the GOP. Someone truly neutral could at least acknowledge this fact instead of the continued insolence and virulent responses to my position? Again, if you have some information to counter my position, please enlighten me with something of substance. Else we can simply agree to disagree.

jungle

At one time unions held 30% of the jobs in the US, now they hold about 10%, you want to blame this on a brand of snake oil, but the truth is that it just represents failure, failure of all brands of snake oil or at least those which you represent.

We were not born last night, and don't base our support on the lesser of what you admit are indeed two evils. You may be able to sell that stuff somewhere else, but we don't accept cold calls from failed industries.

I can only laugh. Crafting- that was a good one.

We must eventually review the actual record of the last thirty years, and it is in fact quite dismal.

The substance was presented in one of my first posts, the real humor here is that you choose to ignore it. Fairy tales and unicorns just won't cut it.

Since you have invested a lot of time and energy in a failed brand, it is understandable that you must ignore facts and trade purely in FUD, fear, uncertainty and doubt, the common currency of the time and one which is entirely worthless.

Pragmatic1

This is not about brands or selling anything. It's about reality. I'm not dealing in the historical. Only the present. Union decline can be attributed to many factors not necessarily related to political reasons. Changes in labor laws and the decline of manufacturing base in America are the major drivers for the membership decline. However, legislation related to labor issues is very political and politics impacts the make up of the NLRB which is critical to labor issues. We can only operate in the environment we live. Today the GOP is not very labor friendly. That might change in the future. This current rest rules legislation, despite the cargo cutout, is a win for labor. The Boeing mechanic agreement was another win for labor. Any change in the NLRB will impact future labor decisions. Maybe you are correct that the DEM party isn't particularly pro-union, but it should be obvious the other is anti-union.

jungle

And the Boeing 787 plant in South Carolina?

Only the present? That is a very tiny slice of time, but if you want to ignore the overall record over time it is of no concern to me.

If you want to spend your time and money on such things it would be far easier to just flush those hundreds down the toilet. I didn't waste a dime on any of it and I got the same deal you did.

Pragmatic1

I'm not sure what your question is regarding the Boeing plant. The NLRB found in favor of the mechanics, ruling the Boeing decision to build a plant in SC was reprisal for past labor disputes. Instead of fighting the decision in court, Boeing and the mechanics reached an agreement. Boeing got to open the plant. The mechanics got pay raises and increased job security and the NLRB dropped the complaint. Seems like a win win situation for both Boeing and the workers and a prime example of how the process should work.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...ase/51764098/1

I have no problem you reaping the benefits and getting the same deal from the efforts of others. You are not alone and you should be proud of your ability to " beat the system." But I feel my money is well spent. Since our most recent regime change, I've gone from a pay reduction and talk of furlough to pay raises and hiring. My 401k, like the stock market, has nearly doubled from its low and my company like many others are experiencing another round of record profits. Perhaps that's all a coincidence and maybe the alternative of allowing the banks to fail, implementing no bailouts, defaulting on our nations debt, cutting the government to the bone, defunding the NLRB and allowing the global economy to fail would have been more lucrative for myself and 4500 of my closest friends.

jungle

I'd pretty much have to admit you are just totally eaten up with it, doubling from the low is still well off the peak and I never had to experience the lows because I pulled the plug before the train wreck, the global economy is failing just fine without any help, the bailouts charged back failure to the taxpayers, unemployment is at record highs, and everything is just rosey.

Please stop trying to help me, you are killing us all. I really can't risk any more benefits of the kind you offer. My only comfort is that they have all just about shot the national wad, and things will just naturally collapse from their own weight. And yet I have made plenty of money betting with the corrupt, the direction was clear from the start. Too bad most Americans will never get a taste, but they will certainly pay the bills.

I enjoy looking at all this from a strictly business point of view, and I am sure you will too: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/286704

Pragmatic1

Like I said, "Perhaps that's all a coincidence and maybe the alternative of allowing the banks to fail, implementing no bailouts, defaulting on our nations debt, cutting the government to the bone, defunding the NLRB and allowing the global economy to fail would have been more lucrative"....Maybe we can see some of these ideas implemented in the future

jungle

Just roll with it, you can't fight it.


Who, The
Who's Next (1971)
Won't Get Fooled Again

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss