USMCFLYR

Here is the SAFO link (10012) discussing the misinterpretation of the 'Minimal Altitude Loss":

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat.../SAFO10012.pdf

Specifically pertinent to this dicussion is the following passage:
USMCFLYR

rickair7777

We have de-focused on the entry procedure, used to be you had to memorize all the stall entry profiles before sim each year...now they just talk us through the entry and let us focus on recovery (saving much-needed brain cells for things we might actually need to know on line).

Recovery is now minimal altitude loss, but there's no set definition of that.

2StgTurbine

That was my biggest stumbling block for my private. I kept messing up the setups for power on and power off stalls. After going over each again and again in my head, I finally realized how silly it was to study how to stall an aircraft correctly for the PTS.

satpak77

as an Instructor Pilot at my place, I also have no problem talking the guys thru the entry and set-up.

Senior Skipper

Agree 100%. When I started teaching, I used to stress the recovery, but my boss insisted that I teach it the old school way (this was after Colgan btw).

I've brought this exact issue up at my company. I was immediately dismissed as a snot-nosed FO who didn't know anything. You guys hiring?

FlyJSH

I never understood this: a stall is an unforeseen and unplanned event. I kinda thought the best way to train for stalls is how we train for uncontrolled attitudes: Head down, eyes closed, when you get the first indication, recover.

Dougdrvr

Exactly!!! The idea of perfecting the entry into something that is supposed to happen by accident has bothered me for decades.

Std Deviation

When I'm training GA (not 142 stuff) I tie the set up to entering the pattern to eliminate the setup recall problem. Downwind - first flaps, DW speed, power to hold alt, left turn to base - second flap setting (hold alt), same power as downwind (A/S will decay), left turn to final - final flap setting, reduce power, initiate descent & stall.

The two 90 degree turns to the left that simulate entering the pattern (180 degrees when combined) count as the clearing turns. There is no necessity to make a 360 as a clearing turn - only to check all sides which the 180 accomplishes. That seemed to screw everyone up: making 360s then remembering how to set up. Now I just say "enter the pattern" and show me the stall.

My approach to landing stalls are set up entirely like entering the pattern (aside from the higher alt) - no one ever forgets as they know the pattern and the speeds and settings. Rote, understanding, application, correlation. That's the correlation part!

USMCFLYR

I was just reading through the traning material provided to me by the vendor when I did my KA 350 Initial Qualification in Jan 2011 - obviously before the AC 120-109 was published, but long AFTER the events of Colgan when the review of training/checking procedures and standards was started.

Here is part of the section for the set-up and recovery for the Stall Recognition and Recovery (Clean Configuration):

When I first read this two years ago I couldn't believe the recovery procedures.
NO MENTION of reducing AOA.
Keeping the nose parked up.
Emphasis on maintaining altitude.

I thought to myself - boy this is 'WAY DIFFERENT' from how we did it in the military (but I was trying to put all of that behind me and learn the civilian way now)

In any case - I'm glad to see a change to the mindset.

As far as the set-ups ..... I always felt that they were using it as a form of measure for basic airwork (BAW).

USMCFLYR

essayons

Reduce AOA... Altitude loss ok... From a large Airline based in the DFW area. Started 11/01.