Asiana 777 Crash at SFO
08-19-2013, 07:22 PM
#691
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Who cares about the sex or color of the pilot? That's irrelevant. However, what is relevant is the FO only having 1200 hrs in the 6 years at UPS. 200 hrs per year isn't a lot and how many actual LOCs were done in 1200 hrs? Same for the CA, 8600 hrs total with a 23 yr career, he wasn't doing more than 200-300 per year average either. Again, how many LOC done in actual with that kind of low currency?
As has been explained to you over and over, freighters do similar to what you know of as a highspeed when they work. It makes for far far fewer hours. Please stop fixating and review the posts on this topic that explain their schedules.
Fighter guys can do an entire career and only accumulate 1200 hours, btw.
I do about 400 hrs a year at DL. Does that meet the ShyGuy minimum qualification for safety hours?
08-19-2013, 09:04 PM
#692
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,902
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Better call your girlfriend and see what she thinks, amirite?
As has been explained to you over and over, freighters do similar to what you know of as a highspeed when they work. It makes for far far fewer hours. Please stop fixating and review the posts on this topic that explain their schedules.
Fighter guys can do an entire career and only accumulate 1200 hours, btw.
I do about 400 hrs a year at DL. Does that meet the ShyGuy minimum qualification for safety hours?
As has been explained to you over and over, freighters do similar to what you know of as a highspeed when they work. It makes for far far fewer hours. Please stop fixating and review the posts on this topic that explain their schedules.
Fighter guys can do an entire career and only accumulate 1200 hours, btw.
I do about 400 hrs a year at DL. Does that meet the ShyGuy minimum qualification for safety hours?
08-20-2013, 04:06 AM
#694
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
I would suggest that ShyGuy is talking about a different type of flying when suggesting that 200-300 hr/year is low time.
People are bringing up fighter guys and other military pilots.
Yes - an average year was 250hrs/yr in my community and that equated to maybe 200 flights in a year - very little on the autopilot and actually maneuvering the aircraft - often to it's limits - but that is beside the point of this discussion I thought. We are talking about proficiency of AIRLINE PILOTS and the airline type of flying right?
i would think that the hours are somewhat meaningless since much of those very well may be at cruise on the autopilot.
Like the regional pilots often talk about - more time spent in terminal areas, multiple takeoffs and landings per day, more approaches, and of course more landings seems to be better topics when discussing currency or proficiency. I was always amazed when hearing that some of the long haul pilots might get a few landings in a 2-3 month period!
While we are on that topic....people are making a big deal out of the LOC approach. Is a LOC approach really considered something extremely special in the airline world?
People are bringing up fighter guys and other military pilots.
Yes - an average year was 250hrs/yr in my community and that equated to maybe 200 flights in a year - very little on the autopilot and actually maneuvering the aircraft - often to it's limits - but that is beside the point of this discussion I thought. We are talking about proficiency of AIRLINE PILOTS and the airline type of flying right?
i would think that the hours are somewhat meaningless since much of those very well may be at cruise on the autopilot.
Like the regional pilots often talk about - more time spent in terminal areas, multiple takeoffs and landings per day, more approaches, and of course more landings seems to be better topics when discussing currency or proficiency. I was always amazed when hearing that some of the long haul pilots might get a few landings in a 2-3 month period!
While we are on that topic....people are making a big deal out of the LOC approach. Is a LOC approach really considered something extremely special in the airline world?
08-20-2013, 04:21 AM
#695
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
For the past 7 years, I've flown nothing but Ultra long haul, 2-3 trips per month, and I don't average one landing per month. We always have 4 pilots, but only 2 landings. Everyone is always begging for a landing and our FOM says the guy who needs it most (soonest to expire) should get the landing. I gave my F/O's all 3 landings last month, so I didn't get any. I got one last week, I probably won't get another one until mid Sept. but I'll fly 3 trips between now and then.
BUT...like most US Airline Pilots, prior to getting to the left seat of the 777 I had thousands of hours of 6 legs per day/night, every day/night, 4 days a week, 4 weeks a month, for 25+ years worth of experience to fall back on, so I've developed good, safe, habit patterns, especially when I'm tired after a 17 hr. flight from Joburg into a snow storm in the ATL.
I don't think the Asians get that kind of experience prior to flying widebody Capt. They don't use the same training pipeline we do. Seems they take a guy straight from a Cessna with minimum time (as little as 500 hours I've heard from my KAL buddies) into the right seat of a 777. Sure they can type 200 words a minute into the FMS, but they have very little stick time.
No wonder they put the auto pilot on at 200' on takeoff, and make every landing an auto-land!
BUT...like most US Airline Pilots, prior to getting to the left seat of the 777 I had thousands of hours of 6 legs per day/night, every day/night, 4 days a week, 4 weeks a month, for 25+ years worth of experience to fall back on, so I've developed good, safe, habit patterns, especially when I'm tired after a 17 hr. flight from Joburg into a snow storm in the ATL.
I don't think the Asians get that kind of experience prior to flying widebody Capt. They don't use the same training pipeline we do. Seems they take a guy straight from a Cessna with minimum time (as little as 500 hours I've heard from my KAL buddies) into the right seat of a 777. Sure they can type 200 words a minute into the FMS, but they have very little stick time.
No wonder they put the auto pilot on at 200' on takeoff, and make every landing an auto-land!
08-20-2013, 04:35 AM
#696
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,097
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Just curious, in your opinion, what amount of flying per month would you consider to be acceptable currency?
Why not 550 hours? What about 700, 800? Only a few ignorant brought up the Asiana flying hours issue.
When you average the CAs flying time, he flew 31 hours a month. Considering short fast legs in the freighter world, that's easily 10+ landings a month. And certainly a lot more flying than a reserve pilot at many airlines (I know because I didn't touch a jet for nearly 6 months once).
The first officer was also a pilot outside of the UPS job. So I think although her flying time is lower than the CA's, it isn't egregious.
Plus, we don't know what type of longterm leave if any they've had through the years or how many training cycles they went through.
USMCFlyr
No, a LOC approach is not a big deal at all.
08-20-2013, 08:06 AM
#697
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
I would suggest that ShyGuy is talking about a different type of flying when suggesting that 200-300 hr/year is low time.
People are bringing up fighter guys and other military pilots.
Yes - an average year was 250hrs/yr in my community and that equated to maybe 200 flights in a year - very little on the autopilot and actually maneuvering the aircraft - often to it's limits - but that is beside the point of this discussion I thought. We are talking about proficiency of AIRLINE PILOTS and the airline type of flying right?
i would think that the hours are somewhat meaningless since much of those very well may be at cruise on the autopilot.
Like the regional pilots often talk about - more time spent in terminal areas, multiple takeoffs and landings per day, more approaches, and of course more landings seems to be better topics when discussing currency or proficiency. I was always amazed when hearing that some of the long haul pilots might get a few landings in a 2-3 month period!
While we are on that topic....people are making a big deal out of the LOC approach. Is a LOC approach really considered something extremely special in the airline world?
People are bringing up fighter guys and other military pilots.
Yes - an average year was 250hrs/yr in my community and that equated to maybe 200 flights in a year - very little on the autopilot and actually maneuvering the aircraft - often to it's limits - but that is beside the point of this discussion I thought. We are talking about proficiency of AIRLINE PILOTS and the airline type of flying right?
i would think that the hours are somewhat meaningless since much of those very well may be at cruise on the autopilot.
Like the regional pilots often talk about - more time spent in terminal areas, multiple takeoffs and landings per day, more approaches, and of course more landings seems to be better topics when discussing currency or proficiency. I was always amazed when hearing that some of the long haul pilots might get a few landings in a 2-3 month period!
While we are on that topic....people are making a big deal out of the LOC approach. Is a LOC approach really considered something extremely special in the airline world?
A loc approach is nothing abnormal in the airline world. I don't get the hubbub. It's similar to the news media getting a tidbit and trying to act like they found jimmy hoffa.
08-20-2013, 02:50 PM
#698
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Just curious, in your opinion, what amount of flying per month would you consider to be acceptable currency?
08-20-2013, 02:53 PM
#699
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
I was always amazed when hearing that some of the long haul pilots might get a few landings in a 2-3 month period!
08-20-2013, 03:56 PM
#700
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Originally Posted by MD11Fr8Dog
I spent 9 yrs in the right seat of the MD-11. My last landing was exactly my 300th!
I probably average 1 per month, so I'm well below average, but we all knew that.
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