FlyJSH

The signature of the CFII only means "Joe Schmoe is qualified to take the checkride on this date." Then an FAA employee or FAA Designated Examiner (a person blessed by the Administrator) signs "Joe Schmoe satisfactorily completed his checkride on this date." After that, it is up to Senior Schmoe to keep himself current.

cardiomd

Exactly, and Senor Schmoe also needs to know the limits of his own ability, even if he is current. Just because I am interested rated does not mean I would attempt a difficult approach at Aspen or some other airport at altitude at minimums in a heavy plane. There are some approaches I fly routinely that would be difficult for a pro to hand-fly without practice. I've had a lot of practice on those specific approaches and am expert at them.

It is somewhat unique to some aspects of aviation that there is a "oh he was taught badly" mentality. Reflects a lack of willing to take personal responsibility or make own judgment.

USMCFLYR

I believe this which is why I'm always surprised when I hear that the FAA supposedly goes after a CFI/II/MEI a long time since any instruction was actually received. And if they are going to go after the instructor who sent him off to the checkride, why not the FAA ASI or DPE who eventually signed him off as good to go?
When does that responsibility end?
Why does it go past the point that the person has his license or rating and then decides to do something of his own choosing (flathatting or attempting an IFR in IMC flight that is a little too challenging right off the bat for a newly minted IR pilot? What control does the instructor, or examiner, have over the person at that point?

Std Deviation

Within the confines of a school the instructor has more control over access to the aircraft. But what about someone that purchases an aircraft for training and then finds an independent instructor to teach him. I can put conditions for operating in the logbook but I have no actual control over behavior. I had a case where the student was illegally flying solo without an endorsement. Another in which an instrument student was illegally filing and flying IFR in the system while I was conducting instrument training. The first situation was brought to my attention by a CFI friend that witnessed it, the second I suspected and confirmed with ATC. The instructor's liability can only go so far.

Cubdriver

Just rambling really, but I have had students go rogue on me before too. This is why I always use tools like hand scanners, parking under a proposed flight plan, Flightaware and calling ATC occasionally to see what a student really did. It is pretty easy to determine how truthful anyone is using various methods and even easier to spot a liar.

The worst thing I have ever had was a student who had already passed his PPL checkride some months prior, but then did a long trip where he managed to bust a presidential TFR in class B airspace and got in a lot of trouble over it. He was a foreigner with mediocre English and I suspected he misunderstood some ATC direction. To investigate his trip, I ended up using various methods to track the flight including some rather neat mathematics to show where he could have been at various times, and ended up finding the actual ATC tape on the LiveATC website. Unfortunately he did what I thought and went right into a TFR despite multiple warnings by controllers.

Toasty

This reminds me of when we were doing our circuits on the A330. I was sat in the jumpseat, and one of my colleagues was sat in the right hand seat doing his training. It was his first ever time at the controls of a heavy aircraft. Part way downwind I saw the captain looking across at him with a concerned expression. I leant across to look at the FO, who had literally gone completely white. He looked like Casper the Friendly Ghost. There were beads of sweat on his forehead and he had completely frozen at the controls. The captain asked him if he was OK, and the FO stayed completely silent, staring forward with eyes as wide as saucers. He couldn't even speak.

Up until that point he had been so confident in the sim, and had great theoretical knowledge, but once at the controls he fell to pieces.

I wonder how often instructors see this type of thing?

Std Deviation

Anybody ever have a student with a death grip lock up on the controls during a stall? Now that's a fun ride. And sore ribs for the student for two straight weeks

Std Deviation

Had a guy start the engine and taxi out during a preflight so he could, "check the engine." This was before he was authorized to solo. That was the last time I drank coffee from the confines of the FBO!

Aviator89

There was one like this at KMSN a few years back, maybe even must a year ago or so. Piper cherokee six took off to fly a few patterns at nearby KRYV, came back. Inadvertant IMC, iced up so bad couldnt see out the front window. Full power was only giving 90 ish knots. (Vfr only pilot btw). ASR approach was given by the controllers. And they even said, "you are over the runway just get it on the ground" because anymore ice or fuel usage would have resulted an a surely fatal crash. **** poor decision to go vfr to ryv that day IMHO. It was just hardly MVFR at the departure time with TAF's showing IFR in the near future.
The pilot is lucky to be alive.
Cant find a link to the story though.

savall

Wow that was cringeworthy. I can't help but have some concern over this. He lost his cool in a HUGE way and went on later to go for another flight. The FSS controller sure didn't seem to believe his story either.