Taxiway Collision
12-31-2014 | 06:17 PM
#21
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From: Volleyball Player
I'm sure both were involved - certainly both in the mishap investigation, but much of what you were describing as happened to the pilot with the certificates and such is the purview of the FAA, not the NTSB. I thought there might have been something else going on but I think that you just mis-spoke in your previous post.
01-01-2015 | 03:46 AM
#22
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
Not exactly, if it goes as far as an NTSB hearing, the NTSB judge could have ordered his certificate revoked/suspended. It's happened before where the NTSB judge orders something far beyond what the FAA was even asking for, based on the case/evidence/testimony. It can go both ways if it goes that far, a ruling in favor of the airman and the entire FAA case dropped, or a ruling of action exceeding what the FAA thought they were "safe" asking for.
What is the threshold of a case going in front of the NTSB judge. Is it just the next/final step in an appeal process that is available to any and all enforcement actions?
01-01-2015 | 08:13 AM
#23
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
The NTSB used to be the final appeal for FAA actions, but they almost invariably ruled in favor of the FAA. For that reason the new pilot bill of rights law provides for another appeal to a federal court.
01-01-2015 | 09:24 AM
#24
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
I did find the appeals process here among other interesting information:
NTSB Information - faaenforcement.com
What if I am dissatisfied with the Administrative Law Judge's decision?
If either the FAA or the airman is dissatisfied with the judge's decision, a further appeal may be taken to the NTSB's full five-member Board. If the airman or FAA is dissatisfied with the full Board's order, either may obtain judicial review in a federal appeals court. However, the FAA can only appeal the Board's order in cases that it determines may have a significant adverse impact on the implementation of the Federal Aviation Act.
If either the FAA or the airman is dissatisfied with the judge's decision, a further appeal may be taken to the NTSB's full five-member Board. If the airman or FAA is dissatisfied with the full Board's order, either may obtain judicial review in a federal appeals court. However, the FAA can only appeal the Board's order in cases that it determines may have a significant adverse impact on the implementation of the Federal Aviation Act.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=Apc1ckAH3FA
Last edited by USMCFLYR; 01-01-2015 at 09:38 AM.
01-01-2015 | 05:05 PM
#25
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From: Volleyball Player
This does not exist because the NTSB has ruled in favor of the FAA, rather, the NTSB has "torn the FAA a new one" on many occasions in court, making them drop the entire case on technicalities and little things when the FAA was convinced their case was "solid".
Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 01-01-2015 at 05:17 PM.
01-01-2015 | 05:22 PM
#26
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From: Volleyball Player
Pretty much, there are some limitations and civil penalty appeals are handled a little differently, but basically yes. Mind you, this is the realm of FAA counsel, where FAA lawyers and attorneys are the real experts.
01-01-2015 | 05:50 PM
#27
New boss = Old boss
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From: Ca B737
Hello everyone. I am writing this post after a collision today between a parked aircraft and a Cessna in which I was giving instruction. The aircraft that we collided with was an LSA which was improperly parked too close to the active taxiway. My student was taxiing on taxiway center line and I was providing feedback about the landing he had just performed. I let my guard down for that split second, took my eyes from outside the cockpit and wham. Our right wing clipped the rudder of the LSA separating it from the vertical. We were the first aircraft to take this taxiway after the LSA had parked. It is my responsibility as an instructor to ensure safe operation of the aircraft no matter what. As a pilot my job is to maintain visual separation from all other aircraft in the air and on the ground, improperly parked or not. I am just starting my career as a pilot and I feel terribly about this. I have a lot of questions running through my head and I want to know how this might affect my career as a pilot. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
01-01-2015 | 06:23 PM
#28
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
This is not a new thing and not brought about by the pilots bill of rights. The appeal to the US court of appeals is written in the order and has been for years (not one of the recent changes), so be default, it has nothing to do with the PBR. The reason you may have referenced the PBR is that it's IN the PBR bill from congress, but it was even in the old FAA Order from 1997, it's been there all along, so nothing new. If a lawyer didn't know this existed, they are being paid too much This does not exist because the NTSB has ruled in favor of the FAA, rather, the NTSB has "torn the FAA a new one" on many occasions in court, making them drop the entire case on technicalities and little things when the FAA was convinced their case was "solid".
This does not exist because the NTSB has ruled in favor of the FAA, rather, the NTSB has "torn the FAA a new one" on many occasions in court, making them drop the entire case on technicalities and little things when the FAA was convinced their case was "solid".We have been talking a lot about enforcement actions and one of the things they have shared is how often something actually gets taken to court. They have some amazing stories of having a guy 'dead to rights' and the lawyers will tell them to drop it because they don't have enough. Seems that the burden of proof they have applied is pretty high for Admin Law and they seem like some of the DAs around the state that don't like to take something to court unless they feel like they have a 99.99% of winning. I'm astounded at what some people are getting away with - and I'm not talking about altitude deviations mind you but rather unsafe operations and stuff like operating without proper training or certificates!
On another forum there is a discussion about whether a local pilot whom the poster knows should be turned in to the FSDO for operating as a Commercial/Multi-instrument rated pilot when he is really only a ASEL Private Pilot actively flying passengers around to include IMC operations. This would seem to be a slam-dunk case - but the one story related is nearly this bad and the lawyers took a pass on it
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