cardiomd

Guessing you are a student pilot? What you are doing is basically flight following / VFR radar advisory, and you are still operating under visual rules. The F16 was operating under IFR but in VMC. In IFR training you have to study the rules and responsibility for separation and traffic control and learn a lot more about ATC management of traffic. Procedurally the VFR practice approaches and IFR approaches can be extremely similar, usually ATC will constantly remind you "remain VFR" when giving vectors and clearing for approach.

Under IFR when in VMC you still must see and avoid, particularly outside of bravo. Thus when using view limiting device you must have a safety pilot per FARs. If you are operating without view limiting device, you can still do practice approaches, but this is a potentially dangerous situation where one might be very tempted to look down without scanning for traffic.

I do this all the time (IFR approaches in VMC), in fact did one yesterday into my home airport. However, it is hammered into you in training that you can't "ride the needles" and look down without scanning, and traffic alerts must be promptly addressed or disaster can result, as did in this case, with loss of 2 lives and 31 million dollars of taxpayer money.

PurpleToolbox post is correct.

Yoda2

Cardio, Of course you can list practice approaches in an IFR flight plan. If that is the case you can make those approaches in IFR conditions if you wish and easier as you are already in the system, which is kinda the point... As a VFR pop up requesting a practice approach, you are going to get issued a practice approach to be done in visual conditions, unless of course you request otherwise.

Hacker15e

None of which has anything to do with the F-16 pilot, having filed an instrument flight plan and flying on an IFR clearance to do exactly what he was doing when the midair occurred.

I'm curious to know if there is one standard stereo I-ride flight plan that Shaw guys file, or if there are different ones for different out-fields.

PurpleToolBox

Those are the procedures for when you are on an VFR flight plan and conducting practice approaches. Under an IFR flight plan flying practice approaches, you do not need to remain clear of clouds. However, when VMC, you are still expected to see and avoid.

Separate issue, when cleared a Visual Approach, they end with you landing on the runway. Even if the procedure is published, there typically is not a Missed Approach Procedure. In the event of a missed approach/go-around during a Visual Approach, you're expected to climb into the visual traffic pattern and/or do what tower wants. I only bring this up because many of the heavy pilots I fly with back up the Visual Approaches with the ILS however they incorrectly brief the ILS MAP in case of a missed approach. That could get you into a lot of trouble.

cardiomd

Close enough, I guess. You seem to be mis-using a lot of terms for someone with a lot of experience, so again I'm guessing you are a student pilot or not a pilot at all. That's ok but don't pretend, which is why you are getting such vicious attacks.

I can tell within a few minutes of conversation if somebody is really a doctor. Basically impossible to fake for any length of time.

You wrote:

As others have said, it is not contradictory. Purple and I explained why.

Were there any solutions suggested other than ADS-B / TIS universal use? Again some presumably experienced aviators even on this board haven't "got the memo."

USMCFLYR

What you said about the practice approach while VFR is correct.
This is how I do a majority of the approaches in my current job - even though ATC uses the phrase 'practice approach' and I'm not practicing.
But I were still IFR - as this F-16 would have been - you wouldn't be hearing that phrase. In Beaufort we had a stereoroute for 'practice approaches - though it is an IFR route and we would have been IFR the entire time - regardless of actual VMC/IMC conditions.

cardiomd

That's interesting. I've never not had tower instruct me what to do, but for visual would assume traffic pattern for a smaller airport that would not be vectoring. For contact approach I assume one is to do IFR missed "by default"?

NotPart91

IMHO ATC did his or her job.

You know there's a lot of environments/locations where something @ 200ft Agl wouldn't come up as an identifiable aircraft, (due to system limitations, ground scatter etc).

How about coordination with a P-3 training flt coinciding with the IFR M-16 Flt, using the P-3 for Airborne Flight Following and De-Confliction?????

That way a .Mil Pilot might be more familiar and in tune with operating/interacting with the .Mil Command and Control Entity,(e.g. a P-3).

Just a thought.

galaxy flyer

Not Part 91

Exactly what is a P-3 supposed to do? And how? How much time have you spent flying a single-seat fighter doing an IFR practice ride?

GF

UAL T38 Phlyer

GF:

The answer is obvious.

This Day in Quotes: ?A little learning is a dangerous thing.? (A little knowledge, too, but that?s a misquote.)