So, I jumpseated into MEM the evening before an afternoon international departure the next day, you know, to be legal? And was denied a sleep room...not authorized one until 12 hours prior to departure.

So, I have to stay awake for 4 hours in the hub, in order to get crew rest. THAT makes sense....

First, there is no “legal” when it comes to jumpseating to domicile for a trip. Second, if I get to MEM that early before a departure, I just get a hotel room. The reason these kinds of rules get made is because some people start hoping the sleep rooms can save them cummutung dollars on hotels or crash pads. Expecting to occupy a sleep room for 16 hours seems a bit excessive, IMO.

Seems like you could ask them if you could have the sleep room right then for 12 hours, then vacate it for your remaining four before the trip when you're awake anyways. I don't recall being told you could only have it for 12 hours prior to a trip, just don't use it for more than 12.

They changed the rules recently and have a printed list of them now on display at the coordination desk. It doesn't read like there is a 12 hour limit from whenever you sign one out - it is based on your departure time. Outside of 12 hours, no room.

Actually, it's not excessive. 16 hours vs. 12 hours in this situation makes no difference. On the average, a pilot who jumpseats in the afternoon prior to his international departure is probably going to get there around noon. For the afternoon turn there are plenty of sleep rooms, and from what I've seen very few pilots are actually using them for rest. Usually it's a place to park their bags or change clothes for a few hours (exercise).

The night hubturn is what's driving this silly policy. There are more pilots than rooms available (especially during peak), and they ARE being used for actually getting a few ZZZZZs. But if management (actually the sleep room Nazi,who sits behind the Coordination Desk.........the same turd that told me 777 guys don't need a sleep room because we get to sleep on the plane) thinks by limiting the sleep room policy to 12 hours is fixing some kind of sleep room availability problem, it's not. For example, I get in at noon, I wait until 3 or 4 pm. (12 hours prior to departure) to get a sleep room (usually don't go to bed until 7 or 8 anyway). Still the same problem............international guys are taking a night hubturn sleep room; 16 hours or 12 hours, it makes NO difference. It's not a big deal to wait until 12 hours prior to departure, just an inconvenience. This is a typical mean-spirited, poorly thought out policy that seems to be the norm around Memphis.

I know what you're thinking, "careful what you wish for." They'll just take away the sleep rooms altogether for international departures......problem solved, except what's that do for the fatigue mitigation program? If that happens, I roll the dice and jumpseat in to the trip...........afterall, all us 777 guys do is sleep on the airplane anyhow.....right? I'm not protected by the contract (>13:30 duty day counting jumpseat show time), but I am still legal. This is a dumb provision in the contract which should have been addressed and fixed. The company has no problem me working a 13:30+ hour duty day do they?

However, all that being said, during peak I lead turn the issue and always email the Fleet Captain to get permission to use a sleep room for more than 12 hours. So far I've NEVER been denied a sleep room. If the sleep nazi gives you a hard time, show him the email.

Okay - well first off, I guarantee you this policy is not the brain child of whoever happens to be sitting behind the coordination desk handing out sleep room keys. Maybe you've gotten some push back in the past from a particular individual, but that's not this. This appears to be coming from Flt Ops management.

The new policy specifically prohibits using sleep rooms to change and "park bags".

I understand your point about 12 vs 16 hours and I agree a 12-hour limit doesn't solve the problem. I'm sure I'll get spears over this but, I guess my attitude is that we (777 guys) shouldn't be grabbing a room at 12 or 16 hours out and thereby denying a domestic hub-turner a sleep room when he commutes in at midnight or between flights. Maybe some will think that's not fair but the sleep rooms weren't meant to be a crash pad. IMO, the folks doing night hub turns should get first crack at them and there's no way to make that happen if we're getting an 8-12 hour head start. If you happen to depart on a low volume night (holiday, weekend, etc), then have at it.

We either police ourselves or as you mentioned, it might get done for us. If I end up on my back-up plan, have to commute on our PM j/s and arrive 5-hours before my NRT departure, I'd like the option to get a sleep room. It would be nice if that option wasn't taken away because of a blanket policy against int'l flyers.

If I was a night hub turner, (I am 777, not exactly a hub turner), and was denied a sleep room cuz a 777 guy was using it and was departing the next afternoon, I would be ****ed.

You can argue the other priorities, but a night hub turner, working in an out, should be number 1.
Then maybe if you worked in, or worked out.
If you didn't work in or out of the night hub turn, I am OK with being last on the pecking order.

Dude! Why the F would you want to sleep in those rooms for 16 hours let alone 12? Gross. Like for sure. Get a hotel room you cheap bas tard.

Just for clarity: He's talking about getting to MEM around noon, give or take, for an early AM departure the next morning.

I don’t understand this either. I’ve had a few times where I’d like to come in a couple hours earlier and give myself multiple chances but don’t because I wouldn’t be covered under that clause.