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Originally Posted by Excargodog
I am not anti-union. I am skeptical that REGIONAL AIRLINE pilot unions are effective however. That is not saying anything bad about unions per se, just that the somewhat transient nature of the people at regional airlines combined with the disadvantages that airline unions suffer under the RLA makes it very difficult for the airlines to BE effective. Even if the NMB was indeed a level playing field (and we all know it isn’t) and if all the union pilot reps were going to actually be around in three years (and we all know they aren’t) it would STILL be difficult for the regional unions to be effective. Knowing they are going to be facing rookies at the negotiations and that they have an advantage with the NMB, of course the management people are going to play hardball.
I understand the skepticism. We all know unions aren’t perfect. And you are right about the RLA. But despite that, it’s still better than nothing. No reasonable person can say that the regionals that have unions would be better off without them. If you think that negotiations are lopsided with a union, it’s only logical it would be worse without one. And with ALPA, it’s not just your supposed rookies. The whole point of any regional choosing ALPA is for its resources. ALPA provides the labor attorneys, contract specialist, economic and financial analysis department, benefits experts, etc. In Skywest, we are talking about an airline with 5,000+ pilots. Dozens of them have varied experiences inside and outside the airline industry. And hundreds of them are veterans of the industry. Just by unionizing alone, the pilots will be adding rights that can protect them. Right now, they have no legal basis to dispute anything. With a union, they automatically have a dispute resolution process that ultimately can be decided by a neutral third party, instead of a Cheif pilot.
And like I’ve been saying, ALPA is a whole lot more than just representation and having a contract. ALPA is the best way for pilots to advocate for safety, security, and pilot assistance.
Look, Management have afforded themselves their own contracts and also an association (RAA) to represent their interests. Pilots can do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog
If you are assuming I either work at Skywest or am NOT in a union, you miss on both counts. I’m simply detailing why REGIONAL PILOT UNIONS tend to be so ineffective. Despite unions, until the pilot shortage hit, unionized regionals were still only paying $25k. The big signing bonuses and higher pay scales were not as a result of effective union job actions BECAUSE THE RLA PRETTY MUCH PRECLUDES THAT. The payscales went up and bonuses happened because of market forces, as the recent PSA raises show. PSA wasn’t even in negotiations yet and gave up nothing for the better pay. Management simply needed to raise the money to put butts in seats.
It’s true that most of the leverage is outside the power of any union to change. They can exert some pressure but most of it comes from things like how the economy is doing and what the labor market is doing. What a union does is try to extract as much value when things are good and to mitigate any damage when things are not so good. With a contract, barring a judge’s ruling, a labor contract holds even in bad times. This protection alone is easily forgotten until bad times hit. These things are specific to each regional as well. It’s all relative. Without a union trying to maximize pay raises by having to pass the hurdle to negotiate and then pass the MEC before it goes to vote, raises wouldn’t be as high. And some of these bonuses are now being turned into pay rates, because of unions.
By the way, the reason why there is a pilot shortage at the regionals is because of the work ALPA did in advocating for the ATP rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog
I don’t disagree. That still doesn’t level the playing field much though. If you could somehow get the major airline unions to help it MIGHT be different, but they seem to not be interested, heck, the ULCCs don’t even look after their own new FOs. $57 an hour at Spirit, $58 at Frontier? $56 at Allegiant and $48 at Sun Country? For that matter, Hawaiian, a nominal legacy, $36??? YGBSM! You have to take a pay cut to move from a regional FO to a major? He//, that’s a pay cut for most second year FOs any more.
Until ALL airline pilots work to help the WHOLE profession rather than just letting the junior people get screwed, I don’t think the unions will ever be strong enough to be really effective, certainly not at the regional level.
Maybe it doesn’t level the playing field but it’ll start to tilt it the other way so it’s not as lopsided as it is.
Again, the pilot shortage is due to the ATP rule. Regional MECs alone didn’t do this. This was a push by ALL OF ALPA. It couldn’t be done without the help of the entire ALPA organization. This literally took and act of Congress that’s been attacked for many years by the RAA. Think about that! Regional management have the RAA to fight for them. Pilots, all pilots together, need to have their own organization fight for their interests as well!
I agree that it’s better when ALL airline pilots work together. That only happens with a union. And right now, Skywest doesn’t have a union. So how else could they part of all pilots working together unless they join the cause?
By the way, the ALPA president who was the most anti-regional, is two presidents removed. So that argument doesn’t even apply anymore. In fact, the current ALPA President is very pro-regional.