From an operational perspective the blended category (international/domestic) is attractive but it requires fewer reserves system wide which means fewer pilots on the list. The company would like one huge category where we're all qualified to fly everything. It's a huge concession and we need to see that for what it is. We currently use the 757 international and Hawaii but it's flown by the 767ER categories. The domestic 767 categories fly both the 757 and 767 through North and Central America and the Carribbean.

Also, are you guys checked out on VNAV and RNAV (GPS) approaches in the 757?

I agree that it's a huge concession to the company- they gain efficiency, while we gain the opportunity to hang ourselves when going to an unfamiliar locale. I've gone around on this point with several CVG guys.

Understandably, they want to capture the international flying out of CVG as a way to preserve their base, but I can't help but think about what would happen if a guy who flies nothing but domestic (due to his seniority) suddenly gets a reroute or reserve call-out to go to London, or Tel Aviv. The procedures are different enough that the opportunity for a mistake is significant.

The company won't hang if you have a gross navigational error, or are launched on by air defense; the pilots will hang.

(FWIW, I commute from CVG to fly the ER in NYC, and have no desire to return to CVG, even if the ER category is put here. I'd rather commute than be locked into the five European destinations they fly to from here.)

First, we do VNAV Non-prec apporaches and RNAV SID/STAR's, but not instrument approaches.

I don't agree a one size fit's all int//domestic 757/67 categorey is problematic from a proficiency standpoint - we have a few pilots now who focus on one element or the other to avoid or bid international routes. Most of the time it goes senior so those doing want to and do it frequently. See few of these trips assigned to reserve. There is also outstanding materials in our flight manuals, cockpit QRMS, as well as fleet bulletins for all international flying that provide step by step for those who need brushing up. Let's not put international stuff up on a pedastal - it's the easiest flying most of us have ever done.

Back to the orginal question - do we have a feel on whether NWA pilots will be incorporated into the Intl or Domestic side of the bid category?

CVG,

I agree with you. At NWA we do fly it all and the dumbest thing I think we do is send new guys down to Guangzhou (CAN, China just up the Pearl from Hong Kong). Most of us do it all the time but I've seen new guys (on reserve) head down there. The good news is we have real good pubs on what to expect but............like I said, I agree with you.

However, it sure it nice to have a mix to keep things interesting. Few months in Asia, couple doing domestic and a couple over in AMS. We actually brag about being the "utility infielders".

Guess what I'm trying to say is "I feel strongly both ways"

Ferd

We don't do GPS approaches in the 757. They're in the box but the only GPS jets are the newest of the 757-200s and all the 757-300s.

We do VNAV approaches, only ASR is dive and drive.........and the only ASR I've seen in a decade was in the sim.

Ferd

As a domestic guy, your international procedures frighten me. What with the plots, position reports and all. I will take non-radar, central american flying any day of the week than go to Europe or Asia. Hint - no sarcasm here.

As a DAL domestic guy how would you know? Also - no sarcasm either - please enlighten me on a) how does it frighten you, and b) how it is any different than what you or anyone else does?

FWIW The plotting charts are for SA only, not for navigation, and yes they are archaic - probably a throw back to when it was done via celestial nav. As far as position reports I hear DAL giving them also - I guess all your aircraft are not CPDLC equipped either?

You're right that it is generally the easiest flying but it also has the greatest potential for mistakes that may get your name in lights if your not very careful, especially with some of the European noise departures, South American depressurization routes, etc. I think CVG's point is that it's different enough that if you only do every few months your going to have to look at it carefully. The domestic 757/767 categories are so big here that if it were all rolled into one some guys may not see much international at all. That said, I know we could do it but my main concern is enabling the company to do the job with fewer pilots. The last thing we need is fewer pilot jobs so a few more guys can get their jollies flying where ever they want. That's my opinion only, of course, but either way the group goes a combined category is a concession and should be compensated accordingly.

As for your last question, I would assume if all NW 757 guys are international qualed now they would stay that way.

Read my post again. My "no sarcasm here" was intended to highlight the obvious sarcasm. I can't remember the Simpsons episode but my comment was to parody an episode where one of the guys was frightened about something he hadn't done. Just a joke. When I fly to the islands or central america I give position reports. Once I'm senior enough to bid away from Africa then I am coming over the international side. I could certainly hold ER right now, but I'd be a junior line holder as a 2001 hire and Africa just doesn't excite me.

What the heck is CPDLC anyways?

OK got it - just flew a red eye last night - still groggy....

CPDLC - data link comms - all our 330's have it - just have to do a single SECAL HF check for back up, and it's text the rest of the flight....

Controller Pilot Data Link Communications - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia