The SIC type was created here to comply with ICAO/International requirements and is nothing more than a bit of paperwork (at least at the 121 level).

Well I can tell you this without reservation,

I have been the guy doing the hiring at several companies. If I saw that you had PFT/PFJ time on your resume it went directly into the not now not ever file. I wouldn't hire somebody with that stuff in his or her background. I know many others who are hiring pilots who feel the same way.

And yes we all knew what companies were doing it.

Hey guys,

I completely understand where you all are coming from, and let me tell you I really wish I had this information before I even started looking into flying. I am the first member of my family to step into the aviation world, so it was very difficult for me to figure much of anything out.

Let me give you a little background on where I I've been, and perhaps you guys can give some suggestions rather than just straight up telling me to go to a different career.

I attended a flight school that claimed they had the key to success in getting jobs with airlines. They guaranteed once I graduated I would have a job no matter what. (later I came to find out if I didn't get hired by an airline they would higher me as an instructor).

After spending $40,000 on just my Privates and instrument licenses I was unable to attain anymore loans. I than returned home for a year working waiting tables etc. at dead end jobs. Eventually my school called me back letting me know of a new way I could attain additional funding. I would say I was going to attend a PTF job, however I would be able to attain extra money to finish out my training, and then go directly there.

After all's said and done, I'm $150,000 in the hole, no instructor ratings to speak of, no job and only around 600 hours. Reading what you gentleman have said about PTF I feel I am especially screwed and have no idea how I'm going to be able to pay my loans, let alone get back to flying.

I'm looking into trying to save money and get my instructors ratings (probably through ATP) however, after reading this forum post I'm starting to wonder if I'll even have a future in aviation if all recruiters feel this way.

I'm seeking help and direction if any of you are willing to help.

Thank you for your time,

R

First off I've got no idea how anybody can pay back 150K on instructors wages when the only thing in sight for the future is a worse paying RJ job!! Holy crude dude!

Here is my question for you. How did you get 150K in the hole and not have every rating known to man by now? Sounds to me like you got the royal shaft form your school, which one was it?

You need some serious financial advice/help because I have no idea how you are going to dig out of that hole with the size of the shovel you've got to work with. In today's market and with your limited experience MORE PFT/PFJ is not going to help you.

Dude you need to seriously forget about aviation completely at least being a pilot. 150K plus all the interest you will accrue my god man. It will take a life time to pay that off on pilot wages.

I agree completly. I also know some guys at various pay for training airlines like Gulfstream. I can tell you they have a very hard time getting out of that environment. There is definatly a strong bias against pilots who pay for there training. I have seen similar discrimination in corporate for guys with no experience who go out and buy type ratings especially in large cabin aircraft (gulfstream, challenger aircraft specifically). Do what you want but prepare for the aftermath.

I'm bartering my services for some training without taking the seat from someone else. No reason for people to go out and pay for it.

RJM

If I were in your shoes and a had 150K in debt and no way to pay it back I'd seriously look at bankruptcy. Get it over while you are young and start rebuilding your credit now. Unless you are not telling us something like your parents are rich. You are already in a smoking financial hole that you will never dig out of in the aviation industry. Not with entry level jobs and you are YEARS away from getting any kind of flying job that will support that kind of debt. And even after you do get hired by a "real" airline it'll take five or six years to get to the pay level you'll need to be at just to survive with that monkey on your back.

The sooner you realize just how screwed you are the quicker you can start with your damage control.

Hey guys,

To answer the first question, I got raked over the coals by my flight school. Obviously in retrospect I was a moron and wish I could have done it a ton of different ways, but I didn't and looking back and regretting what I've done won't help me. I can only learn and move on.

Also as far as PTF goes, it's already in the past and I'm not looking to do it again. The only real reason I did it was because it got me access to more money to get my commercial licenses.

As far as bankruptcy goes, the reason I was able to get that much in loans was because my parents co-signed the loans (and no they aren't rich at all).

Honestly I'm doing everything I can. Getting my four year degree, looking for work else where to pay the bills, however I don't want to give up. I absolutely love flying and think it's utterly amazing some people (hopefully me in the future!) get paid to do it!

I know it's not going to be easy at all, but this is obviously my burden and I know I can do it. I am just looking for advice and perhaps creative ways of getting to where I want to go. I hope that you guys might have some advice (other than giving up turning around and running for it). There's no turning around for me financially or for flying. I simply love it and won't give it up.

Thank you for your guys time! I appreciate the feedback.

Also my main question was, given my situation, would you (recruiters out there) still hold it against me that I did a PTF gig? I hope that people in your position can see that lack of knowledge/guidance/experience may be able to see the position I'm in. Worse comes to worse, I'll get my instructors ratings and get another job or two on the side, but I won't give up flying!

Thanks and take care all!

Put yourself in the guy who is looking through resumes and or applications shoes. You've got stacks of stuff to look through you first sort them out by who's qualified and who's not. You then find the most qualified you then throw out the ones you don't like. No time for personal stories. No time for drama.

That's how it works in the real world.

What flight school was it?