VA is going to wet lease 3 A319's for the domestic service over there. Not a big operation at this point. They have orders for alot of new widebodies. I know some of those are replacements, but I think they will continue to focus on international flying. The only Delta hubs they currently fly into are NYC and LAX. We gain access to flights from SFO, LAS, MCO, MIA, IAD, BOS, and ORD.

My biggest concern isn't the U.S. to LHR flying, it's what happens to Africa, Asia, and Caribbean flying. We could fly virtually all of our European/Carribean customers on Virgin through LHR and we could see alot of our Asia/Africa customers on Virgin flights also. That's where we lose while we focus on just the LHR to U.S. flights.

Heard at Air France Headquarters this morning:

Delta Takes 49% Stake in Virgin Atlantic for $360 Million - NYTimes.com

Seems like the deal could require less domestic seats. What have past JV LOAs produced?

The number of slots is finite, so the allocation of flying should probably not be predicated on any growth. This may be a story about shifting assets, where VA perhaps shifts flying away from their East and South, to feed the Transatlantic operation. In this context, there could be a way that VA frees enough slots for the TA flying, in which we would share. You're still playing musical chairs with the VA part of the flying, which equates to some reductions. Then again, they're bleeding cash, and they also have to take appropriate action. I'm not suggesting that we're simply going to waltz in and do all the flying, but I am suggesting we shouldn't fund the solution to VA's structural problems.

Another way to look at it is that our company DID buy 49% of theirs, and this merits some consideration. Since there is no LHR growth on the horizon, that should translate into flying now. This LOA, and the notion of appropriate production balances MUST rest on the present. It cannot be crafted like the VAustralia deal, which grandfathers current (lobsided) ratios AND some extra growth by our partner.

Let's not forget about our existing TA JV with AF/KLM/Alitalia. I don't know how it's written, but it cannot be that any VA JV flying is assessed to our side of those ratios. That is European flying, so I think it's going to feel a little murky. So far, I don't see anything about VA joining Skyteam, so perhaps this deal exists completely outside of the TA JV?

My first objective is to get more info, with a clear focus on getting a proper amount of existing flying (not merely growth), not fund solutions to VA's position at our expense, and not yield anything on the TA JV. I think Bar had some good ideas in terms of tightening compliance standards on that front.

The areas that I'm looking at, when talking to my reps will be:
1) Improve or maintain current ratios with AF/KLM/Alitalia,
2) Not allow bypass of our own Africa/Middle East flying (i.e. we must maintain service levels there). The AF/KLM/Alitalia is going to far in removing point-to-point flrying, and we must learn from that.
3) Not allow bypass of our own UK flying, (i.e. we must maintain service levels there). The AF/KLM/Alitalia is going to far in removing point-to-point flrying, and we must learn from that,
4) Enhance our access to LHR flying NOW, not under some unlikely growth scenario,
5) Collaborate with VA pilots, but let them fund their company's structural problems, as we funded ours (and did we ever!).

Exactly. I think we are looking at the wrong threat when we look at flights into LHR. If you were from the U.K. and going to the carribean, you won't fly on Delta metal anymore. And anyone from any of the current Virgin cities won't fly Delta metal to get to LHR.

I am not making comment on this yet, but what is the difference between this and AF/KLM? We could be routing all our passengers to Africa thru them NOW. Actually, their route network is much better to Africa than is VA's. What I initially see is the beyond flying past LHR. India could get chopped.. but definitely not grow.

Good idea to start a separate thread, BTW.

I don't suspect it's very different. Might be the very same, but more of it. Example: We go to Nigeria. Air France goes to Nigeria. The LOS flight, unlike the CAI, AMM flights has so far survived the JV. But now VA also goes to Nigeria... and we ask ourselves... do we really need to be all going to LOS? Especially when UCAL is about to start IAH-LOS in a new 787?

So LOS gets dropped.

I do agree with you that it's too early to hyperventilate over this. But it's definitely not too early to get really, really curious about it. This is a big deal.

Anyone else feel like Richard Anderson is trying out for a job on a British version of "The Apprentice" working for Richard Branson?

Interesting when you look at their route map... LAS, admittedly a lower-yield destination, is served from LGW. BA, with 50% of LHR slots, can afford LAS from LHR.

I wonder if VA has enough LHR slots (5%) for themselves.