After watching the History Channel's "Russia: Land of the Tsars", it becomes clear.
The Bolsheviks didn't replace that system -- they perfected it.

Valid points and the horrid history of Russia and such brought up in these debates.

Some folks always seem to have the need to make it a personal attack on another, as usual.

But hey! Sometimes, I just have to keep it basic, kick back, and root for my home team. So, that being said…..USA!…USA!…USA!

Are you previous military? I'm honestly curious on how one sheds this "moral equivalence" mindset. How do you take objectivity out of the world and see it as the righteous thing to do?


If I watched the news I'd sure as hell think the US is a godsend to the mud farmers in the middle east and the communist Russians.

Are you a baby boomer? Maybe retired or about to be? I honestly haven't seen such patriotism outside of story books.

We certainly know you were educated in a public school in the last 20 years. Blame America first. Let me see if I can explain this to you in a way you will understand. Dude the Russians are invading the Ukraine. The majority of the Ukrainians don't want that. That is what we used to call wrong.

Seriously you defend Russia for attacking Ukraine simply because they want to ensure the free (and by free I mean for free) flow of Natural Gas to Western Europe but no doubt occupied wallstreet because Bush traded "Blood for Oil"

Ps I don't want to shed my moral equivalence argument I like being able to make value judgements. It is how I know it is not right to rob banks or take candy from babies and the people who do so are bad.

PPS the country is doomed.

This is where I have to point out the source bias of information gathering. We don't believe tobacco research from cigarette companies right? They have something to gain. Conflict of interest. What validates information from parties who have a conflict of interest? Take what both sides are saying and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

No, I point out the rational of Russia defending a political attack from the EU.

A person doesn't need the bible to tell them murder is wrong. Ethics are not tied to religion or politics.

Let's reframe this conversation. You are correct about us being educated differently. I have had the internet for a significant portion of my life and grew up in a time where the status quo has been rapidly shifting away from patriotic views as more and more become disillusioned. My views and life experiences are radically different.

I've never even legitimately heard anyone argue for moral equivalence. That's something you read in history books.

Strawman

Strawman

Strawman

Ah the Bible and those evil Christians. No doubts your views are radically different comrade. You think that is good but you don't value value judgements. The Russians or their surrogates murdered everyone on MH17.

All people calculate value judgements, but Moral equivalency is rooted in objectivity.

A natural extension of the term value judgment is to include declarations seen one way from one value system, but which may be seen differently from another.

I am disappointed with your choice of response. I call no group evil. I call out source bias, and point out that we don't have all the information to make accurate calls. Your attempts to discredit my points discredit yourself.

You are not objective if you are blind to the truth; you are ignorant. To pretend that because you don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Russian or Russian surrogates shot down MH17 and then hindered the relief effort to cover it up that their is an equal possibility that the Ukraine shot it down (and thus the EU and CIA) is willful ignorance.

We have the makings for our own little civil war in the thread.

Just a guess, but Ukrainians don't give a hoot about your value judgements and neither do the Russians. Show up and they might hand you a rifle and let you make a statement with that, or maybe they would just shoot you because you make too much noise.

Not me you won't find me fighting for the EU.