There will always be somebody trying to justify Gulfstream and PFJ even though the masses abhor it. For the record, UPS can do much better than hiring from a place like Gulfstream. I've met only one streamer at UPS and that person claimed to be a street Capt.

Gulfstream style PFJ is just wrong. No justification possible for it. End of story. Period.

"idiots at Gulfstream have not crashed anything"

Both the crewmembers on PCL3701 had Gulfstream on their resume.

Right...because we never get hurricanes, thunderstorms or fog in Florida....Oh, and being that it is a turbo prop operator, we're right in the weather all the time, we can't go over it.

I'll give you a good reason not go GIA. NO PIC TIME. You get hired at Pinnacle you won't upgrade for years. CFI's in your training class this year, will be your Capt. next year. I wouldn't discount getting your instructor certs! They help with the PIC time you need to upgrade.

So did the FO on Comair...

Why do you continuously defend an inept, scab infested operation that does nothing but hurt the industry from a pilot's perspective? I am surprised most of those pilots don't go bankrupt. I can't imagine having a loan payment for the job you paid for on top of one for your flight training; assuming that many people will have to take loans for their initial training before they get to Gulfstream.

Their website says "Real Airline Experience Included." The passengers ARE NOT paying for a student to get experince.

By the way rightseater, what you described as weather is not "weather." I meant solid IMC like the northeast in the winter.

ok lets see...
1. Scab infested? We don't have any pilots on our seniority list that are scabs.

2. No student pilots are flying at gulfstream.

3. I'm not going to argue with you over which is harder dealing with Level 5 and 6 t-storms and hurricanes in the summer, or snow storms in the winter in the NE. Neither are ideal flying conditons. At least in the NE you're always in radar coverage...not so in the bahamas. At times you're not even in contact with ATC.


Oh, XJPILOT1...you're reason for not going to gulfstream is no PIC time? Upgrade at gulfstream are currently as soon as you meet ATP mins. You come here with 1000 hours, then you're looking at upgrading about 5 months after you start flying the line...Are you working somewhere where the upgrade is quicker than that? If you are, i'd sure like to know how your captains are flying without an ATP.

I love how all of you people say that this place would ruin your chances of ever getting hired on elsewhere, when Gulfstream is currently losing about 10 captains a month to major airlines...keep in mind, we only have about 150 captains on our senority list.

why would anyone want to spend $29,900 ?!?!
http://www.gulfstreamacademy.com/First_officer.php

Less then half that can get you instructor certificates and then you can be PAID to work and build time. Why would I want to spend 29 grand after I just spent all this money getting my ppl, instrument, comm and multi ???? Doesn't really make much sense to me.

CFI course, costs on average around 4,000
CFII course, costs on average around 2,500
CFMEI course costs on average around 4,000

thats 10,500 for the CFI's...In order to get those CFI's you also need to get a Commercial Single...so you need to spend money to learn how to do a steep spiral, power off 180, chandelles, Lazy 8's and 8's on pylons, any one of which can trip up commercial single pilots, causing them to have to spend extra time and money on that.

so say it comes to a total of 15,000, for those four ratings.

Now you flight instruct...we'll say for three years. Say you make 30k/year, thats pretty good for a CFI. Maybe you end up with 1500/100me after three years, you're set to go to the regionals.

a comm multi pilot goes to GTA, where she is PAID to build time...three years down the road she's got her ATP and is a captain logging multi turbine PIC, and has made around 25k on year one, and 50k on year two, 55k on year three. The GTA captain now has her 1000 hours of turbine PIC time. While you're applying to the regionals she is applying to the majors.

So the CFI made 90,000 over the three years, while the GTA pilot made 130,000 over the three years...thats $40,000 more, not to mention the fact that the GTA pilot is now going to the majors while the CFI is about to endure first year regional FO pay.

So you're arguement that its so much more expensive to go to GTA doesn't really seem to make much sense....

commercial single??? i did my commercial in a single then got a multi add on.
i don't see why you would add that cost onto ur figure. I already know those maneuvors as well.

So according to your estimates, 10,500 for the instructor ratings. I doubt you really need to instruct for 3 years. If you find a place that is busy it could be just a few months. The regionals are not hiring with 1500 / 100 anymore. 600/100 is more like it.

As far as your financial argument, according to www.airlinepilotcentral.com, the pay is nowhere near is high as you just mentioned. The website could be wrong.

you do not need a commercial single to go to an airline...They all fly Multi engine aircraft. you do not need to do all those maneuvers for your commercial multi initial.