For a newhire....

MD - years to maybe never as the bidpack shrinks and a bid makes you fall off the bottom.

777 - years and then maybe a few more years as subsequent bids bring senior pilots in on top of you.

For May, the junior lineholder on the 777 was hired June 2016. On the MD-11, he was hired in Feb 2016. Those are actual published lines. Junior secondary lines with flying (no reserve) are going to October 2016 hires on the 777 and May 2016 folks on the -11.

That info is accurate but there may be guys slightly junior to those data points getting flying lines too. Our seniority list doesn't have DOH and it takes more research than I feel like doing to get more specific than that. Those expectations can change depending on where they're hiring. 777 has been undermanned and they've been pumping bodies in over the last year. I've heard that's going to slow down until late this year, so things could stagnate for newbies on that jet. MD might pick up but as of this snap shot, 777 movement is quicker.

My definition of holding a line is a little different. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't call getting the scraps that fall to a junior guy holding a line. Those lines get that junior due to more senior guys (most likely local) choosing reserve and letting those crappy lines fall down the list. When peak comes reserve vs line bidding changes and former "line holders" can't get one. VTO is a crap shoot in the bottom half and can always have reserve. More senior VTOs get reserve when there are bid months with less vacation.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but, IMO, until you can totally avoid reserve by getting a line (or top half VTO), are you really a line holder? Maybe my definition is completely wrong. Sorry if I caused confusion.

At the airlines I've worked for, a secondary line made of "scraps" is still a line. If someone is inconsistently getting a published line and other months getting a secondary with flyiing, then I would call them a line holder. They're not on reserve. How or why that happens isn't relevant if it happens all the time.

Peak is a factor in about 15% of our year. Are you going to discount the other 85% because things change during that brief period? I don't understand how a line holder in non-peak ops can't continue to be a line holder during peak (unless they have to be able to hold Xmas off in Dec to still be considered a line holder). In my experience during peak, non-lineholders become lineholders if they're willing to work when everyone want to be off. But, if your definition of a lineholder means they can't get scraps or "crappy" lines then I guess that wouldn't count either.

I just flew with an F/O whose been here for 18 months. Hasn't been on reserve since last fall. He's getting "crappy lines" or scraps via secondary, but he ain't on reserve. He can trip trade, bank all the BKO hours on the long haul and benefit from every flavor of disruption we have. So, I'd call that a line holder. On the 777 a crappy line usually means F/O flying trips with no front or back deadheads and a few multi-leg days of hub turns in Asia or Europe. Still not too bad - they're just not getting the DHs or nice RFO trips that average 8-9 CH of pay per day. I'll bet there are plenty of FOs who would much rather do that every month than commute to reserve and maintain a crash pad whether they're considered line holders by everyone here or not.

That all makes sense. Thanks for the insight. I was fortunate enough to get hired before we stopped hiring last time. I sat on reserve for three years (75 FO). Towards the end of that time, when I starting getting scrap lines, trip drop/trading was a extremely difficult as we were in contract negotiations. A bottom VTO meant a crappy reserve line. Even when my input was "any trips," I'd get reserve including the infamous R-24. So I stopped that because all it got me was a similar crappy reserve line that I could have held on the bid but now with less notice for my commute.

I'm glad new guys are seeing movement and have choices. Good QOL spread around makes for a better work environment overall.

Point of order. Y'all keep mentioning it, even highlighting it, but not really acknowledging that it's the single most important factor in the flexibility one might have in manipulating a schedule of R-Days.

MANNING.

You can say it's fleet and seat dependent, but that's only because a particular fleet and seat can be MANNED differently, and that fluctuates so that 6 months from now the same fleet and seat may give a completely different experience.

My prediction: As The Company prepares for mass retirements on December 31st, manning in the seats from which those pilots will retire, predominantly wide-body captain seats, will tend towards overmanning. On January 1st, they will suddenly be undermanned. The junior widebody captain will have a much different "fleet and seat" experience in January than he will have had in December because the manning will have changed dramatically.

First Officer seats won't have as drastic a change, but the ability to drop R-Days and otherwise manipulate their schedules will continue to depend on how their particular seat is manned THIS MONTH. Since we have so little control over how any seat is manned, or even when we might be able to change from one seat to another, the whole matter of scheduling flexibility seems to fall into the category of stuff we can't do anything about. Enjoy it while you've got it, and grin and bear it when you don't.






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Hi - thanks for all the great info so far!

Interviewed a few weeks ago and received a class date for August.

Rumor is that our class's drop will consist only of 757 and Airbus slots.

I'd be commuting out of FAR, and notice that most of the flights there are on the 'bus. If my goal is to maximize layovers at home, my first instinct would be to bid accordingly.

However, helpful insights from this thread and from friends have shown me it might not be so simple a choice.

Could anyone offer additional insights with my specific situation in mind?

Thanks!

Looking at the new Training letter, there are no 777 nor 767 new hire slots. Available new hire slots are -11, -300, 757.

Yes there are a few who got class dates for the -11

I am wondering what logic I should be applying to choosing between the 75 vs Airbus.

Look at second year pay, wide body vs narrow body.

That's all you need to know.

Unless, of course, you would rather do 4 legs a night for less money, instead of 2 legs a night for more money.

It's your call.