mercys ghost

[QUOTE=Nevjets;2815547]
No goal posts have been moved.......


Is that it? Come on man, lets really hear what happens. I love this....

Nevjets

[QUOTE=mercys ghost;2815663]

Yes, you’ve moved the goal post multiple times. First your argument was, are you afraid to get fired or are you second guessing your abilities? And then I pointed out that getting insurance is the smart thing to do.

Then when you couldn’t counter the common sense of having insurance, you moved the goal post and said that’s fine but what if pilots don’t want to pay dues, are they going to be forced to?

Then the analogy was made with state automobile insurance mandates. Then your argument shifted to that it’s not the same because you have the choice to drive. And so it doesn’t apply at Skywest because you can go to Skywest knowing you won’t have to pay union dues since they are non-union. So I explained to you that it’s no different than someone living in a state when an insurance mandate is enacted.

Then you moved the goal posts again by saying that in one instance it’s a government entity passing a law and in the other it’s private citizens voting to unionize and so now those who were against have to pay union dues and so the analogy doesn’t apply.

So I explained that In both cases, a government entity passed a law affecting current constituents, insurance mandates and the RLA. In both cases people have a choice, move or work somewhere else. In both cases people have a choice, stop driving or piloting, or pay premiums or dues. And finally I pointed out that it’s just the democracy we live under and that in fact, voting in a union required TWO democratic votes instead of just one for insurance mandate.

Then you reverted again to calling me names by saying I’m a union zealot. Just like you called another person a drone, as if people can’t think for themselves. That really moved your argument forward.

And so you moved the goal posts again and now want to know what problems arise from not paying union dues. And when I explained it to you, your counter argument was, no I’m not moving goal posts. But it really really want to hear what happens when you don’t pay your union dues. Insinuating you know already.


So I’ll go ahead and keep playing your childish games since you don’t have anything else and it gives me more opportunity to talk about unionizing.

Go ahead and don’t pay union dues and nothing other than being in arrears happens. Yeah, that’s it. When you get to your next airline, if you so choose, you’ll be in arrears unless you go to AA, SWA, UPS, or one of the Teamsters airlines. Other than that, you’ll probably earn the ire of your fellow pilots, assuming they find out you are not paying your dues. So what do you think happens? I’ll be looking for the goal posts to move again since you haven’t refuted any argument posed to you yet.

mercys ghost

[QUOTE=Nevjets;2815775]
Lets first talk about goal post movement. The reason you feel I have moved the goal posts is that you have no legit argument to make when it comes to comparing unions, government, and laws. So, call it all goal post movement all you want, but I have remained on point, and kept it simple. Your entire argument is comparing apples to oranges. I don't know if you really believe what you say, or you are trying like hell to pull the wool over peoples eyes knowing your argument is weak.



You are not unique, you guys are a dime a dozen. Unions love guys like you. You pay them, and then in turn you do all the dirty work for them. Promoting, making excuses, you name it.



Have you ever heard this quote from Winston Churchill?



"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."


You are in a no win situation here, and you know it. You cannot, and will not dig into the bowels of the issue because there are too many skeletons to come out. You can put frosting on a turd to make it look all pretty and appetizing, but does not change the fact it is still a turd. It is your job to talk about the frosting, and try like hell not to have the turd come into play.

Meow1215

What’s next, “if you disagree with me, your worse then Hitler”? Nev has addressed your arguments each time and you change the narrative. Your own argument falls in on itself and you are moving the goal posts.
Let’s chalk it up to your a troll, we should stop feeding you.

mercys ghost

Chalk it up to whatever you want, and you are more than welcome to block the crap outta me.



Oh and as far as the disagreement, it is equal to Hitler, not worse.

Nevjets

[QUOTE=mercys ghost;2816017]
So now you’ve moved the goal posts again, as I predicted, by wanting to argue about moving goal posts. Every time I’ve refuted your argument, you changed your argument (moved the goal posts) without addressing my counter argument.

And to top it off, you’ve again reverted to an ad hominem argument by making another personal attack on my character. Thats what people do when they don’t have a valid counter argument, attack the person rather than his argument.

I’m happy to talk about whatever bowels, skeletons, turds, or whatever other human tissue you are referring to. But I highly doubt you will actually articulate whatever it is you think you know, because it seems obvious you don’t know much about ALPA. Prove me wrong but I’ll predict you’ll move the goal post again.

mercys ghost

[QUOTE=Nevjets;2816094]Wow, guess I did not make simple enough. This is worse than I thought. You are so lost now the phantom goal posts are running laps in your mind.

You claim I dont know what I am talking about, but boy oh boy you sure take issue with me dont you?

herewego

Your argument about Automobile Insurance is a red herring. Liability Insurance laws are written to protect me from you being an idiot, just as driving laws (except seatbelt and helmet laws, which many people think are an over extension of a nanny government) are written to protect me from your poor driving habits. Prior to Obama Care there was no government mandate to buy insurance to protect yourself from yourself. Comprehensive insurance is mandated only by a lender to protect them from ruining the car they own until your loan is paid off. Don't want to pay comprehensive insurance? Buy a car you can pay cash for.

For those of us that don't want to pay union dues, we have done exactly what you suggested, we went to Skywest knowing in advance they were a nonunion shop.

What you said in a previous response to mercys ghost is actually spot on
it's the possible problems of daring to cross the union or not toeing the union line that is the unwritten or unsaid threat. What are those problems? Vote against the union and you'll never get a job with a major? Let it be known you don't want a union and we'll key your car, break your windows, or slash your tires? Go to work in a slowdown, and a pro union check airman will bust you on your next checkride?

Nevjets

A red herring suggests I’m distracting or misleading. My points are neither. In case of automobile liability laws, it’s a law passed in a state that requires people driving in that state to have it. In a vote, it is actually a two step process. First, the RLA law was passed in order to give airline workers the ability to give themselves MORE rights, opposite of liability laws. And the second step is for each work group to vote to give themselves those rights. The equivalent for liability laws would be for a state government passing a law that gave the people a chance to vote to enact the law on themselves. In both cases, the law protects people from themselves and others. The RLA actually gives you more rights so in essence protects the collective group and the entire profession from many threats. It is proactive, I’ll give you that.

As for what happens if you don’t pay dues, like I said, not much. I’ve been part of two pilot groups who are union, and in both, other than having arrears, nothing happened to them. In one airline, unless you were the secretary treasurer, you didn’t know who these people were unless they told you. And in the other pilot group, when pilots retire, their names are published on a union email. They will be congratulated as ALPA members or non-ALPA members.

This isn’t Hoffa’s teamsters where people’s knee caps get broken when crossing a picket line. Just as with liability laws were passed, you can pay, move, or not pay. In the latter, at worse, you get ire if people know and care.

[QUOTE=mercys ghost;2816130]

You are making this personal. It’s not personal.

gojo

Yes, anyone says ALPA, or union and he shows up like clockwork. That’s okay, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But it should make you wonder about his or her motivations?