Skywest Compass Expressjet
04-17-2013, 06:16 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Grounded
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by JungleBus
I opened this thread fully expecting it to be the stupidest thread in the stupidest forum on APC. It took an entirely different & much stupider direction than I had even thought. Well done, sirs. Well done.
04-17-2013, 08:21 AM
#82
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
I spent the last 6 years in the left seat at an ALPA carrier which no longer exists. Why do I now have to start all over again at the bottom of the heap, on year one pay, in the right seat at a crappy regional, and pay my dues all over again?
The only "coat tails" thats riding on is B.S. system that ALPA will not address because its a gutless ineffective group that panders to its mainline interest groups.
Keep your stickers, your lanyards, your tie pins and your glossy magazines and I'll keep 2% of my pay check. I'm going to need it, again!
The only "coat tails" thats riding on is B.S. system that ALPA will not address because its a gutless ineffective group that panders to its mainline interest groups.
Keep your stickers, your lanyards, your tie pins and your glossy magazines and I'll keep 2% of my pay check. I'm going to need it, again!
Originally Posted by Nevets
That rationalization doesn't excuse coat tail riding. I know they keep you "happy" by agreeing to match any rates, health benefits, 401k matching, and scope that the ASA/XJT pilots negotiate.
I'm really surprised you guys can't see that simple concept.
I'm really surprised you guys can't see that simple concept.
Name 2 regional ALPA carriers that have been as successful as OO. You'd be hard pressed...
Must go with the kool aid you get over there but it's not about the pilots.
Last edited by Nevets; 04-17-2013 at 08:37 AM.
04-17-2013, 09:05 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Supreme Allied Commander
Posts: 1,059
Nevets please tell me which union of a regional airline you represent, and with the tens of millions contributed to date, which program YOUR individual union pioneered that we now copy. Was ASAP YOUR union's idea, and everybody else mirrored it? I have a feeling you just implemented stuff mainline did. And pay and work rules? That has much more to do with the success of your company than your union membership, just ask Mesa, Republic, Pinnacle and GoJets, Comair, Colgan, etc. And if ALPA has no conflict of interest between major and regional, tell me does any of your pilot group dues go ALPA national, or is it all for your work group?
You didn't really answer that guys question too that you just reasoned to. You just basically said that "hey they didn't buy ASA/XJET to bail them out, they did it for business sense". We all know that. His point is the consequences of buying them gave job security and stability to thousands of pilots. SkyWest pilots have worked to make their company what it is, and they can claim to have contributed to the financial success it has achieved in the 30 years leading up to the purchases. Without that they wouldn't have been in a position to aquire other companies. Thats a positive thing for the industry. Comair was on the table too, but SkyWest opted out.
Your comparison of illegal immigrants I disagree with. We aren't citizens of your company. It would make sense if you wanted to compare it to members of your own company that don't belong to your union, which get the work rules, pay etc without paying dues. But we are our own company or "country" and we pay for the services we have through the profits of our company, not through taxation or dues. Our "student council" here evaluate and work on proposals and such for pay and work rules etc, and still battle with management just like at a union carrier, but of course with less leverage. The whole "one flick of a pen" mentality has truth, but it also has truth to Comair, Pinnacle and AE as well as of recent. What are you gonna do if you propose something and management says no...strike?
If you feel like you have dirty rotten scumbags as leaders of your company by all means be unionized, you can't trust them. Whether or not SkyWest management can be trusted by our workgroup is a good debate for a long cruise portion of flight. As said before, if we felt like we needed a union we'd get one. In 40 years running it hasn't shown to be a negative, but that's our "risk" to take. If there was only 1 nationalized list in the USA representing all pilots except SkyWest, then make your case. But until then, stopping villainizing SkyWest pilots; we aren't making the life of regional airline pilots worse.
You didn't really answer that guys question too that you just reasoned to. You just basically said that "hey they didn't buy ASA/XJET to bail them out, they did it for business sense". We all know that. His point is the consequences of buying them gave job security and stability to thousands of pilots. SkyWest pilots have worked to make their company what it is, and they can claim to have contributed to the financial success it has achieved in the 30 years leading up to the purchases. Without that they wouldn't have been in a position to aquire other companies. Thats a positive thing for the industry. Comair was on the table too, but SkyWest opted out.
Your comparison of illegal immigrants I disagree with. We aren't citizens of your company. It would make sense if you wanted to compare it to members of your own company that don't belong to your union, which get the work rules, pay etc without paying dues. But we are our own company or "country" and we pay for the services we have through the profits of our company, not through taxation or dues. Our "student council" here evaluate and work on proposals and such for pay and work rules etc, and still battle with management just like at a union carrier, but of course with less leverage. The whole "one flick of a pen" mentality has truth, but it also has truth to Comair, Pinnacle and AE as well as of recent. What are you gonna do if you propose something and management says no...strike?
If you feel like you have dirty rotten scumbags as leaders of your company by all means be unionized, you can't trust them. Whether or not SkyWest management can be trusted by our workgroup is a good debate for a long cruise portion of flight. As said before, if we felt like we needed a union we'd get one. In 40 years running it hasn't shown to be a negative, but that's our "risk" to take. If there was only 1 nationalized list in the USA representing all pilots except SkyWest, then make your case. But until then, stopping villainizing SkyWest pilots; we aren't making the life of regional airline pilots worse.
Last edited by saturn; 04-17-2013 at 09:27 AM.
04-17-2013, 11:01 AM
#84
Banned
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,071
Originally Posted by Nevets
Again, the point I've made several times is, do you honestly think you would have made out better without ALPA or any union, for that matter in that process? What about all the benefits you took for granted in the those six years? Regardless, ALPA has still benefitted us all. Stop just thinking short term or just yourself.
Don't kid yourself. They bought us because it made good business sense. They wanted to get into the CAL portfolio. BR himself said on one of the conference calls that there is a benefit of incumbency. They saw Exppressjet as their ticket to incumbency for larger aircraft. Even leveraged they purchase of ExpressJet against CAL by negotiating new terms to the CPA, namely replacement rights for 90 aircraft with larger aircraft. This has NOTHING to do with you being non-union.
Must go with the kool aid you get over there but it's not about the pilots.
Don't kid yourself. They bought us because it made good business sense. They wanted to get into the CAL portfolio. BR himself said on one of the conference calls that there is a benefit of incumbency. They saw Exppressjet as their ticket to incumbency for larger aircraft. Even leveraged they purchase of ExpressJet against CAL by negotiating new terms to the CPA, namely replacement rights for 90 aircraft with larger aircraft. This has NOTHING to do with you being non-union.
Must go with the kool aid you get over there but it's not about the pilots.
The point is that OO has and continues to make plenty of money for the company all WITHOUT a union and have kept the employees happy in the process.
04-17-2013, 11:04 AM
#85
Banned
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,071
Originally Posted by saturn
Nevets please tell me which union of a regional airline you represent, and with the tens of millions contributed to date, which program YOUR individual union pioneered that we now copy. Was ASAP YOUR union's idea, and everybody else mirrored it? I have a feeling you just implemented stuff mainline did. And pay and work rules? That has much more to do with the success of your company than your union membership, just ask Mesa, Republic, Pinnacle and GoJets, Comair, Colgan, etc. And if ALPA has no conflict of interest between major and regional, tell me does any of your pilot group dues go ALPA national, or is it all for your work group?
You didn't really answer that guys question too that you just reasoned to. You just basically said that "hey they didn't buy ASA/XJET to bail them out, they did it for business sense". We all know that. His point is the consequences of buying them gave job security and stability to thousands of pilots. SkyWest pilots have worked to make their company what it is, and they can claim to have contributed to the financial success it has achieved in the 30 years leading up to the purchases. Without that they wouldn't have been in a position to aquire other companies. Thats a positive thing for the industry. Comair was on the table too, but SkyWest opted out.
Your comparison of illegal immigrants I disagree with. We aren't citizens of your company. It would make sense if you wanted to compare it to members of your own company that don't belong to your union, which get the work rules, pay etc without paying dues. But we are our own company or "country" and we pay for the services we have through the profits of our company, not through taxation or dues. Our "student council" here evaluate and work on proposals and such for pay and work rules etc, and still battle with management just like at a union carrier, but of course with less leverage. The whole "one flick of a pen" mentality has truth, but it also has truth to Comair, Pinnacle and AE as well as of recent. What are you gonna do if you propose something and management says no...strike?
If you feel like you have dirty rotten scumbags as leaders of your company by all means be unionized, you can't trust them. Whether or not SkyWest management can be trusted by our workgroup is a good debate for a long cruise portion of flight. As said before, if we felt like we needed a union we'd get one. In 40 years running it hasn't shown to be a negative, but that's our "risk" to take. If there was only 1 nationalized list in the USA representing all pilots except SkyWest, then make your case. But until then, stopping villainizing SkyWest pilots; we aren't making the life of regional airline pilots worse.
You didn't really answer that guys question too that you just reasoned to. You just basically said that "hey they didn't buy ASA/XJET to bail them out, they did it for business sense". We all know that. His point is the consequences of buying them gave job security and stability to thousands of pilots. SkyWest pilots have worked to make their company what it is, and they can claim to have contributed to the financial success it has achieved in the 30 years leading up to the purchases. Without that they wouldn't have been in a position to aquire other companies. Thats a positive thing for the industry. Comair was on the table too, but SkyWest opted out.
Your comparison of illegal immigrants I disagree with. We aren't citizens of your company. It would make sense if you wanted to compare it to members of your own company that don't belong to your union, which get the work rules, pay etc without paying dues. But we are our own company or "country" and we pay for the services we have through the profits of our company, not through taxation or dues. Our "student council" here evaluate and work on proposals and such for pay and work rules etc, and still battle with management just like at a union carrier, but of course with less leverage. The whole "one flick of a pen" mentality has truth, but it also has truth to Comair, Pinnacle and AE as well as of recent. What are you gonna do if you propose something and management says no...strike?
If you feel like you have dirty rotten scumbags as leaders of your company by all means be unionized, you can't trust them. Whether or not SkyWest management can be trusted by our workgroup is a good debate for a long cruise portion of flight. As said before, if we felt like we needed a union we'd get one. In 40 years running it hasn't shown to be a negative, but that's our "risk" to take. If there was only 1 nationalized list in the USA representing all pilots except SkyWest, then make your case. But until then, stopping villainizing SkyWest pilots; we aren't making the life of regional airline pilots worse.
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