Will SWA Ever Rival Legacy Pay??
07-11-2017, 08:52 AM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,003
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
Reserve bottom captain... The "industry standard" for those IS 18 days of work. Highly doubt you'd credit the equivalent as a bottom of the barrel reserve captain.
Using the video that Get Real posted, Delta uses an average of 83 hours. I used 100 hours per month in my example. I figure since we're engaging in mental masturbation, why not use 100 hours... Again, using our payscales, that's ballpark 150 TFP per month. That's $396,000/year gross. This is not counting your B-plan, which would bring you to $449,064 total, or profit sharing using last year's numbers (13.2%) which would further bring you up to $501,336 for the year.
At the end of this current contract, using the same figure, you're looking at $442,152/year gross. Add in your B-plan, and that figure goes up to $508,475. Now throw in profit sharing (13.2% last year's figures), and you're up to $566,839 for the year.
Yeah... real industry laggard. Funny thing is... you can even exceed your numbers. I just looked up the cappy I've flown a few premium trips with, and he's quite a bit junior to you if you're indeed in the top 8-10% now. Here are his numbers:
March: 14 days off, 151 TFP, (training month, one sick)
April: 15 days off, 136 TFP (no vacation, no sick)
May: 17 days off, 149 TFP (vacation - did not fly over it, no sick)
June: 14 days off, 167 TFP (no vacation, no sick)
I should also mention, this guy's a commuter. He ain't the only one either pulling these numbers, and he definitely doesn't have your seniority. Ironically, his average is 151 TFP. That's Delta's B-777 captain numbers crediting 100 hours.
Now compare those to Delta's B-738 numbers using their top out pay of $265/hour and giving the guy a credit of 1200 hours per year. $318,000 gross... throw in Delta's 16% plan and 20% profit share, and that number is at $432,480 all-in.
Choices my friends....
At the end of this current contract, using the same figure, you're looking at $442,152/year gross. Add in your B-plan, and that figure goes up to $508,475. Now throw in profit sharing (13.2% last year's figures), and you're up to $566,839 for the year.
Yeah... real industry laggard. Funny thing is... you can even exceed your numbers. I just looked up the cappy I've flown a few premium trips with, and he's quite a bit junior to you if you're indeed in the top 8-10% now. Here are his numbers:
March: 14 days off, 151 TFP, (training month, one sick)
April: 15 days off, 136 TFP (no vacation, no sick)
May: 17 days off, 149 TFP (vacation - did not fly over it, no sick)
June: 14 days off, 167 TFP (no vacation, no sick)
I should also mention, this guy's a commuter. He ain't the only one either pulling these numbers, and he definitely doesn't have your seniority. Ironically, his average is 151 TFP. That's Delta's B-777 captain numbers crediting 100 hours.
Now compare those to Delta's B-738 numbers using their top out pay of $265/hour and giving the guy a credit of 1200 hours per year. $318,000 gross... throw in Delta's 16% plan and 20% profit share, and that number is at $432,480 all-in.
Choices my friends....
Once again........
I've never said that you can't make good coin at SW.
In fact, I've said that it is entirely possible, and actually, quite common, but you're gonna work for it, which, also, once again, your numbers prove.
Which is entirely my point. In order to earn what my relative counterpart at a legacy earns, I'd have to work roughly an extra week per month. And that's just the pay differential.
That we can do so is, IMHO, a great part of our contract, and, along with our pay rates, separates us from the other LCCs.
Personally, I had quite enough of regional schedules during the 10+ years I was at various regionals, therefore, I "choose" to not work on my days off (meaning more than 12 days or so) and wouldn't even consider working over a vacation. Heck, if I get less than 3 weeks off for one vacation week (which used to be a given, but they've "fixed" that nowadays) I am teetering close to the yellow. Therefore, in over 22 years, I've never, not once, ever, made 150 tfp in a month, much less every month.
For most everyone (other than e6b
), averaging 150 per month is a grind. 
Last edited by SlipKid; 07-11-2017 at 09:23 AM.
07-11-2017, 09:30 AM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,003
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
I'm with you. I don't want to work extra. Especially since picking up a turn in a day off is just asking to be rerouted/JA'd into two days of hard labor.
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07-11-2017, 09:19 PM
#154
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,663
I picked up a trip with a DH 1st day (got released) flew 2 legs then 2nd day was only DH ( got released).
I've haven't been JAd off of a trip I've picked up with DHs. Tho I've been JAd on my normal schedule.
Maybe I've been lucky.
I've haven't been JAd off of a trip I've picked up with DHs. Tho I've been JAd on my normal schedule.
Maybe I've been lucky.
07-11-2017, 10:28 PM
#155
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by SlipKid
I've passed on some sweet premium turns out of my commuter city because of the "DH" bait and switch. They've all gone junior, and on all but one, the guy to whom it was awarded ended up flying the back end DH to MCO, making it not such a great deal.
If you pick up stuff then get JA'd into something else, it all pays premium still? Or are you saying you can't count on the DH back to your commuter city because you'll likely get reflowed back into a dom city and be on your own to get home?
07-12-2017, 02:37 AM
#156
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by SkyNation
for those of us pursuing SW, can you elaborate?
If you pick up stuff then get JA'd into something else, it all pays premium still? Or are you saying you can't count on the DH back to your commuter city because you'll likely get reflowed back into a dom city and be on your own to get home?
If you pick up stuff then get JA'd into something else, it all pays premium still? Or are you saying you can't count on the DH back to your commuter city because you'll likely get reflowed back into a dom city and be on your own to get home?
No. It's bait and switch. (Or at least it appears to be) You pick up what looks like an easy trip. Maybe operate one leg and deadhead home. Or fly one day and deadhead home the next.
As soon as they have you on the hook though, scheduling "finds" additional flying for you to do, oftentimes within the rig so it doesn't pay any more.
The deadhead often disappears to be replaced with more flying or even a JA for the following day.
So you volunteer to help out the company on a day off, the next thing you know they "volunteer you" for additional flying on subsequent days off.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
The company is artificially affecting the open time marketplace by making it much less desirable to pick up extra flying. And then they wonder why folks aren't picking up as much as they have historically..
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07-12-2017, 06:27 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
SWA is a damn good job. All the legacies and cargo are damn good as well. These arguments are trivial unless someone has an offer for two at the same time.
Guys at SWA can make serious money with premium. But even at AA I'm on pace for 122 hours this month with some premium.
I also had the option to drop two 4 day trips this month if I wanted. I could have stayed at ~45 hours working 8 days or I could have picked up whatever I wanted.
Everywhere has pros and cons. Just have to love the one you're with.
Guys at SWA can make serious money with premium. But even at AA I'm on pace for 122 hours this month with some premium.
I also had the option to drop two 4 day trips this month if I wanted. I could have stayed at ~45 hours working 8 days or I could have picked up whatever I wanted.
Everywhere has pros and cons. Just have to love the one you're with.
07-12-2017, 10:59 AM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,672
Originally Posted by mainlineAF
SWA is a damn good job. All the legacies and cargo are damn good as well. These arguments are trivial unless someone has an offer for two at the same time.
Guys at SWA can make serious money with premium. But even at AA I'm on pace for 122 hours this month with some premium.
I also had the option to drop two 4 day trips this month if I wanted. I could have stayed at ~45 hours working 8 days or I could have picked up whatever I wanted.
Everywhere has pros and cons. Just have to love the one you're with.
Guys at SWA can make serious money with premium. But even at AA I'm on pace for 122 hours this month with some premium.
I also had the option to drop two 4 day trips this month if I wanted. I could have stayed at ~45 hours working 8 days or I could have picked up whatever I wanted.
Everywhere has pros and cons. Just have to love the one you're with.
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