Grumpyaviator

Keep in mind, negotiations are not with SWA. They are with FordHarrison, a law firm that advises all airlines in negotiations. SWA sets the agenda, FH calls the negotiating shots, outward and hidden, ethical and otherwise. Their first step is division; between mgmt and labor, between employee groups, and within employee groups.

Arguing within the group about things like RLA rules, who’d be willing to strike and other non-pertinent (as of now) issues helps their agenda.

PS, and most of all, consider why a board that touts the family culture of the company would retain a firm whose first step is to divide the company. Who is loyal to whom?

ROFF

Early opener? This is great news.

Going to start boat shopping. I figure with the MAX back any day and a new contract mid next year I’ll be ready for summer in style!

Proximity

RJSAviator76

Something for every Southwest pilot to remember. 3 of our employee groups have industry-leading contracts: Flight Attendants, Dispatchers, and Mechanics. Other employee groups have come to expect industry-leading on every contract. Why aren't we?

4thLevel

Because Tom Dean and the "what are you willing to give up for that" crowd.

PolishFlyerDude

Like Proximity said, it doesn’t matter. It’s the “book away effect“ leading up to the POSSIBILITY of a strike that creates fear and uncertainty in the minds of passengers, causing them to “book away” from the airline in question. That, in turn, gets the attention of airline management.

Case in point: in 2018, Allegiant’s pilots threatened to strike entirely outside of the bounds of the RLA. There was no possibility of them getting released because they weren’t even in Section 6 negotiations or mediation. Allegiant’s management knew there was no possibility of their pilots getting released and any strike would have been completely illegal.

Yet, even with that backdrop, Allegiant’s management turned scared. In a 2018 court filing, they stated this:

That is the “book away” effect. Had Allegiant’s pilots been on a legal path to self help, it would have made their threat of the possibility of a strike that much more real to management. That is leverage. “Book away” happens before a release and way before a strike ever happens.

Btw, Allegiant ended 2018 with 76 aircraft. That’s roughly 10% the size of SWA’s current fleet.

PolishFlyerDude

The 24-minute strike by American in 1997 was not stopped by President Clinton. It was delayed by 60 days, the length of a PEB as provided for in the RLA.

As Proximity explained, the American pilots ended up settling their dispute with management during the 60-day PEB period, so they never went back on strike. The reason, then, the American pilots didn’t go back on strike in 1997 had nothing to do with the President’s ability to stop a strike. Had they not come to an agreement within the 60 days of the PEB, they would have been able to go back on strike. The President couldn’t have stopped them.

One of the great myths propagated among the SWA pilot group by those who should know better is that “the President will shut down” any strike that might happen. Again, the President only has the power to delay a strike with a PEB by 60 days. He/she can’t stop a strike from happening.

Typically, a PEB occurs immediately following the expiration of the 30-day cooling-off period after a release from mediation and proffer of arbitration. The American 1997 case was a little unusual in that Clinton allowed a 24-minute gap in between the end of the cooling-off period and the PEB. Normally, the cooling-off period would roll right into a PEB. A strike is prohibited by law during both the cooling-off period and a PEB.

Also, some people might tell you that the President can unilaterally extend a PEB past 60 days or call a second PEB. Not true! He/she could only do so if both sides agreed to it. According to the Department of Justice:

SlipKid

That crowd is at least 84% of this pilot group. Same as it ever was.

Grumpyaviator

I think the demographic has changed, especially with so many regional guys on property now, almost all of which have been through contract negotiations at some point and know what a good contract can have, vs not knowing what we don’t know.

In this environment it’s not “what are we willing to give up”, but “we can get all we think we’re entitled to”, and still have a prosperous company and secure future.

PS. I’m not an entitlement millennial, I’m in the last few years of a career that finally has the potential to give a return on the dues I’ve paid for three decades, and that’s what I and many others expect in the next TA.

flyguy81

My last job was with a regional who was involved in negotiations for 7 years. We asked repeatedly for a cooling off period and was always denied by the NMB. 99% voted to strike. Vote of no confidence in management. Hamstrung by the NMB and the RLA.....for 7 years.

Only got a contract when codeshares threatened to cancel contracts over the extreme number of canceled flights due to FO’s quitting and going to other regionals. We had less than 200 airplanes.

Maybe SWAPA can buy those idiots in the NMB off to move things along but consider me jaded in regards to prolonged negotiations. I’ve got my list of things I want fixed and have no problem voting no if it’s not there. But I don’t see the largest domestic airline ever getting released.