CDO / high speeds / stand ups at SWA
12-14-2019 | 12:07 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
OTH, we taxi at V1 like we’re rushing to the hotel for a five hour rest, even if we’re 20 early and the gate’s occupied.
On a more serious note, I do like the trip mixes and the am/pm philosophy. But the ams seem to be getting earlier, the later and the days longer, probably because of the max situation.
On a more serious note, I do like the trip mixes and the am/pm philosophy. But the ams seem to be getting earlier, the later and the days longer, probably because of the max situation.
I noticed it starting with the implementation of FAR 117 and it has seemed to steadily worsen as the -800 has become a larger portion of the fleet.
FAR 117 allowed duty days with nine hours of block. Combine that factor with the longer turn times required by the -800 and the ripple effect throughout the system is longer duty days and shorter overnights.
I see many duty days now that would have been illegal pre-117 in terms of block time. Also, gone (for the most part) are 20 or 25 minute turns that used to be the norm. The new normal seems to be 40 to 60 minute turns, and in some cases longer. Several recent 3-days had close to two-hour ground times each day of the trip.
Finally, the union failed to realize that the -800 and FAR 117 would have this kind of an impact (though some tried to point it out at the time) and allowed our duty rigs and other work rules to remain the same despite a relatively significant change to our operating environment. Therefore, the company has no incentive to reign in the expansion of duty day periods and the contraction of overnight lengths.
The argument that prevailed was that the -800 (despite nearly 40 additional seats) would be able to be turned in the same amount of time as the 143-seat jets. They tried to do that at first and our on-time metrics imploded.
12-14-2019 | 12:25 PM
#12
Line holder
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,167
Likes: 226
From: Aircraft & Seat: old & hard
Hi guys,
Does SWA do CDO / high speed / stand up trips where you take the last flight out, sleep and then do the first flight back to the hub the next day, all within the same duty period?
If so, how are the trips built? Are they ever built into a longer pairing? Does it pay 2 days (or duty periods)? Is there any override for this kind of trip? Any other contractual protection?
Thanks
Does SWA do CDO / high speed / stand up trips where you take the last flight out, sleep and then do the first flight back to the hub the next day, all within the same duty period?
If so, how are the trips built? Are they ever built into a longer pairing? Does it pay 2 days (or duty periods)? Is there any override for this kind of trip? Any other contractual protection?
Thanks
12-14-2019 | 12:29 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Likes: 0
It’s not a hate thing, just an observation. Even before data gathering, it’s common that SWA taxis at speeds that are not permitted at other airlines. Just wondering out loud about the background behind it.
12-14-2019 | 12:59 PM
#14
— No Relief On Scope —
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,531
Likes: 306
From: B737 Left Seat
I’m ready for the last leg of a PM trip to be done before 0130.
12-14-2019 | 03:13 PM
#15
At your mom's house
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,675
Likes: 449
From: cpt 737
Most airlines have FOQA. Exceeding recommended taxi speeds on the ground generates a FOQA event. Boeing’s taxi speeds are 30 knots on long straight segments, 15 knots for turns, 10 knots for 90 degree or greater turns.
I have no idea if SWA looks at this with their FOQA program.
I have no idea if SWA looks at this with their FOQA program.
12-14-2019 | 03:30 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,544
Likes: 0
From: 175 CA
That’s just a broad statement I’ve seen other carriers zoom by just as fast probably on a last leg before a commute but still.
12-14-2019 | 04:51 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
The duty days have seemed to be getting longer and the overnights shorter since before the MAX situation.
I noticed it starting with the implementation of FAR 117 and it has seemed to steadily worsen as the -800 has become a larger portion of the fleet.
FAR 117 allowed duty days with nine hours of block. Combine that factor with the longer turn times required by the -800 and the ripple effect throughout the system is longer duty days and shorter overnights.
I see many duty days now that would have been illegal pre-117 in terms of block time. Also, gone (for the most part) are 20 or 25 minute turns that used to be the norm. The new normal seems to be 40 to 60 minute turns, and in some cases longer. Several recent 3-days had close to two-hour ground times each day of the trip.
Finally, the union failed to realize that the -800 and FAR 117 would have this kind of an impact (though some tried to point it out at the time) and allowed our duty rigs and other work rules to remain the same despite a relatively significant change to our operating environment. Therefore, the company has no incentive to reign in the expansion of duty day periods and the contraction of overnight lengths.
The argument that prevailed was that the -800 (despite nearly 40 additional seats) would be able to be turned in the same amount of time as the 143-seat jets. They tried to do that at first and our on-time metrics imploded.
I noticed it starting with the implementation of FAR 117 and it has seemed to steadily worsen as the -800 has become a larger portion of the fleet.
FAR 117 allowed duty days with nine hours of block. Combine that factor with the longer turn times required by the -800 and the ripple effect throughout the system is longer duty days and shorter overnights.
I see many duty days now that would have been illegal pre-117 in terms of block time. Also, gone (for the most part) are 20 or 25 minute turns that used to be the norm. The new normal seems to be 40 to 60 minute turns, and in some cases longer. Several recent 3-days had close to two-hour ground times each day of the trip.
Finally, the union failed to realize that the -800 and FAR 117 would have this kind of an impact (though some tried to point it out at the time) and allowed our duty rigs and other work rules to remain the same despite a relatively significant change to our operating environment. Therefore, the company has no incentive to reign in the expansion of duty day periods and the contraction of overnight lengths.
The argument that prevailed was that the -800 (despite nearly 40 additional seats) would be able to be turned in the same amount of time as the 143-seat jets. They tried to do that at first and our on-time metrics imploded.
12-14-2019 | 09:39 PM
#20
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 0
From: the correct seat
Thanks for the input guys.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
