StillFlying

Looking for your input or at least a conversation going. In 2006, there was a post asking this same question, but I’m guessing a lot has probably changed in the last decade.

Got a job offer from SWA and FDX, trying to make final decision.

Right now, I live about a 3 hr drive from a SWA domicile, but in a few years (when one of the kids graduates HS) I will probably move to COS area. So commuting for FDX is on the foreseeable horizon unless the Frau decides she wants to move to Indy (probably small percentage of that happening). For SWA, I would eventually be driving 3-4 hrs a week or so (up and back) to DEN.

I’m early to mid-40s, I’ve looked over the numbers (with certain assumptions I can go into with more depth as needed), and here is what I found using 78 CHrs/Mo at FDX and 113 TFP/Mo at SWA (and realistic upgrade timeframes), FDX wins hands down in terms of salary. However, things start to even up when you look at SWA’s eventual 15% B fund versus FDX’s eventual 9% B Fund, SWA pulls ahead when you start to factor in profit sharing. (FDX’s non-COLA adjusted A Fund doesn’t provide a lot of buying power in 25 years or so if you start running the numbers.)

I think I understand that SWA seems a lot more flexible on their schedule (trip trading, vacation trading, finding open time, etc.) than FDX. Not sure how much MORE I want to work or spend away from home, but looking for premium pay for flying about the same sounds enticing.

I understand currently, SWA will be all one aircraft…but that means lack of having to go back to training minus CA upgrade (who knows what the future will hold). FDX has the opportunity to fly a few different aircraft over the next couple of decades.

FAs, passengers and walking through the terminals with the uniform on vs. deadheading, packages, and cargo ramps.

AM/PM schedule/no red eyes vs. a good chunk of late night/early morning flying.

A chance to see 100 destinations in the Western Hemisphere vs. seeing 400 around the world.

Both seem like solid companies and that is why I focused my efforts on these two. Who know what the future will hold (SWA acquiring someone and upgrade times increasing…FDX having to fight it out if Amazon makes a true play on shipping.)

I know I am probably overlooking a lot (so feel free to fire away), but maybe not only looking at it from why I should go with FDX, but for a different perspective why I should go with the SWA instead (i.e., looking at the negatives), may provide me some more clarity. Anyone here switched and why?

Thanks in advance for any insights / thoughts!

HERKMAN

Ok, I'll give you perspective from a guy who spent 5 months at SWA then came over to purple. I retired from the AF in Jan 2016. First of all, you are working your ass off if you fly 113 TFP a month. I was on pace to fly 800 hours my first year, at FDX most guys average around 500. Work less get paid more. Guys at SWA told me I was going to get real old working at FDX, funny they looked pretty old flying 5 legs a day. 1 or 2 legs a day is the norm at FDX. Trip trade, open time and vacation policy are very similar at the two companies.
Put the extra money you make at FDX into your house or fav toy and have those paid off at retirement. A-plan + mil retirement and you are sitting pretty, not to mention the B plan + 401k at FDX. Profit sharing at SWA is going to be all over the place, look at the historical numbers on that.
Believe me, once you start flying in the cramped 737 cockpit, you'll want other options. I felt the same way you did about never having to train again, but going 737 to 767/757 was super easy.
You also have to look at the little things:
Ipad international data plan, not at SWA
Paid uniforms, not at SWA
Catering, not at SWA
Paid parking, not at SWA

And the MOST important detail for a commuter....you can book your jumpseat 3 weeks in advance. This is HUGE man. I commuted into Houston Hobby and it was a knife fight for the jumpseat every time!

Not that upgrading is the most important thing but....I want to at least have the opportunity to upgrade before I've spent 13 years with the company. Guys are getting 757 Capt bids with less than a year on property at FDX. They won't start training for 18 months or so after but 3 years to 757 capt aint bad. PM me if you want any more reasons to come to purple.

ClutchCargo

You'll never get any Arcturian poon tang at SWA...


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MaydayMark

Many years ago (does that make me sound old?) I thought I'd enjoy SWA flying very much. They looked like they flew long, hard (as many as 5 legs/day) days but it looks like the crews are having fun.

I thought back then and I still think that Southwest might be the only company that really understands the airline business. In the old days SWA wouldn't interview you if you didn't already have a 737 type rating. I had 1500 USN hours and another 1500 727 hours. In my mind getting a 737 type rating was a pretty safe bet? Should I have to pay $10,000 to get an interview? I didn't think so ...

All that said I frequently fly SWA for family vacations. I like their reasonably priced fares, no penalty rebooking policy & free baggage policy. I'm impressed at their on time reliability. It still looks like their crew are having fun to me.

I've done the "walking through the terminal in my uniform" thing. It never gave me much of a thrill. It's nice to be able to make a decision to divert without having to concern myself with passenger service issues.

All that said, FedEx will have been great career. I'm glad that I'll be able to retire with decent pay and benefits (and my Naval Reserve retirement).

I think you're lucky to have to choose between the two really great airlines. Good luck with your career, it would be hard to go wrong.

Albie always has interesting educated views of there decisions. You should wait to hear from him.

Huck

I've been to six schools in 15 years at Federal. Flown the 27,10,MD,77,and 75/76. Going to school gets me sharp again, gives me new skills and new routes, and as Frank Hoover says, the cafeteria is better over there.

I'd slit a vein, looking at 30 years on the same aircraft. Different strokes for different folks....

DC8DRIVER

Pax vs boxes is another thing to consider.

Boxes don't complain about anything. No FA's to be responsible for, either.

Very few plusses at a passenger carrier other than travel perks.
For family vacations, it's better to buy tickets, anyway.

IMHO.

8

pinseeker

How much would you have to save a year to match the non-COLA adjusted A plan? I think you'll find it's north of $25000/year. Is the 15% B plan COLA adjusted? Once you add a 9% B plan plus the amount you'd have to invest to match the A plan, I think FedEx might look a little better.

Also, profit sharing is dependent upon how the accountants run the numbers. If you don't think that they will manipulate the numbers to rob Peter (pilots) to pay Paul (executives and shareholders) you might be in for a shock.

Just my two yen.

busdriver12

Interesting that you aren't even putting the A plan into the mix. You realize that in order to get a 130K/yr payout, you'd have to have approximately a 2.5 million dollar annuity at retirement, right? Many years from now that might not seem like a whole lot, but a couple million still has to have some value.

I honestly can't imagine a company with more flexibility than FedEx. You want to work every day of your life, you can do it. You want two months off, you can do it. Even without vacation, the trip trade/drop system is very active. Just good luck getting December off!

I rarely jumpseat into work (FedEx will buy you a ticket), but if I do, FedEx is just about the only one I jumpseat on (reliable, rarely will get bumped). We have a lot of deadheads, and you can get a paid for ticket into work (often first class), and maybe knock off a day at the beginning or end of your trip. It beats the heck out of begging for a seat. Though it is painless getting a jumpseat from FedEx.

You'll probably get paid a lot more than 78 credit hours a month, with vacation, volunteer, training bumps, etc. I can tell you that I only block about 250 hours a year. Except for the 777, our block hours are pretty low. Yes, there is a fair amount of night flying (but a reasonable amount of daytime trips), but I'd much rather fly a night leg with a long layover than several legs a day of day flying. Talk about getting old, fast!

I've done the passenger carrier thing and I haven't found flight attendants, pax to be a bonus. Yes, there are issues with freight, but I find FedEx is much more mission oriented, flying related without all the personal issues of dealing with other people. I'm not saying it's easier, because we often go during weather conditions, while other carriers cancel. If it's safe and legal, we go.

Wildmanny

I agree with everything said thus far.

For me, it all comes down to flexibility and variance of flying. I never applied to SWA because a wise old friend of mine correctly asked me to consider how much I would look forward to flying 5-6 legs a day through Texas. That sealed it for me. I hang my hat on the flying diversity at FedEx. We have all the options you could want. Plus, I think your upgrade will be faster here.

Commuting is a concern and driving to work would be great. However, if you had to commute, it's super easy at FedEx.

Good luck with your decision. It's nice to have options, for sure.

WM

PA31

Hired this summer, had apps at both SWA and FDX. I would have taken either job, but I'm glad FDX called before anyone else. Everything has been top notch here and everyone has been willing to bend over backwards to help. It's markedly better here than my previous airline.