Originally Posted by saab2000
(Post 3015240)
I would certainly hope that furloughs would be a desperate measure of last resort and that other alternatives like early retirements, reduced guarantee (with a snapback date and retroactivity), etc. would be explored first.
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But the majority of those furloughed up to 20% of the list would be like 4-5 year FO pay. Early out for the top ten percent would still be cheaper, no?
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Originally Posted by at6d
(Post 3015680)
But the majority of those furloughed up to 20% of the list would be like 4-5 year FO pay. Early out for the top ten percent would still be cheaper, no?
A talked to a Chief in Dallas on one of my sits last trip about this. He said the problem with early retirements is most of those guys participate in the Top Hat program, which I believe is company managed. If they retire, the company has to distribute that, which is many, many millions. Never thought of that. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Pilot ETO Program
Originally Posted by Twinjetav8r
(Post 3015771)
A talked to a Chief in Dallas on one of my sits last trip about this. He said the problem with early retirements is most of those guys participate in the Top Hat program, which I believe is company managed. If they retire, the company has to distribute that, which is many, many millions. Never thought of that.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Idiot conversations like this are why I never ask a Chief about anything not related to their actual job. That is the dumbest reason I have ever heard. That top hat money is accounted for on the balance sheet and while the company is "holding it", it isn't theirs and never will be. Early retirements would be a good fit to save money. Buy guys off at the top of the list for a good price. They lose their 1600 sick bank that they had planned on burning down and go home and collect a check and wait for the market to eventually bottom out and come back with a vengeance. Win win. Here is the problem: pilots at SWA are just another employee. What you offer to one employee at SWA, you have to offer to everyone. We would have to name a new VP to invent a program for everyone and give it a different acronym than every other airline. The other problem is that the company absolutely refuses to own the poor decision to overman the pilot group despite every indicator and line pilot saying it was a terrible idea. Remember a few months ago when everyone was in disbelief on how overmanned we were? That's when we had 87 percent load factors. That poor planning decision is currently costing them millions of dollars a month. Who will suffer the consequences for that? Hint...look in the mirror. |
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
(Post 3015793)
Idiot conversations like this are why I never ask a Chief about anything not related to their actual job.
That is the dumbest reason I have ever heard. That top hat money is accounted for on the balance sheet and while the company is "holding it", it isn't theirs and never will be=12pt. To look at this scenario through very bullish glasses, perhaps they don’t want to give early outs (just yet) so that when things come roaring back they’ll have the man power and MAXes to really grab some extra market share. I don’t know. Crazier things have happened in this industry. |
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
(Post 3015827)
Au contraire! Top Hat money can be theirs if things got bad enough and they declared bankruptcy. That’s a pretty doom & gloom scenario but I’m just playing devils advocate.
To look at this scenario through very bullish glasses, perhaps they don’t want to give early outs (just yet) so that when things come roaring back they’ll have the man power and MAXes to really grab some extra market share. I don’t know. Crazier things have happened in this industry. Yeah I totally get the Ch 11 scenario. I should have put that out there. Lots of guys put money in top hat back in the day thinking that could never happen. It is a line item on a balance sheet, so it is fair game. |
Originally Posted by DHC8DRV
(Post 3012603)
Compared to the offer AA got, this doesn’t even come close. For where I’m at, 5 year FO pay its $3000 less a month.
AA offer of 55 hours a month at 169/hr = $9300 SW offer of 44TFP a month at 143/tfp = $6300 Maybe they think SWAG points will make up for it!! |
LUV our FA's
Originally Posted by ipdanno
(Post 3013888)
The Association was not allowed to help put this together. Offer to help was rebuffed.
I liked reading the FA union response, recommending against taking this. I hope TOTAL lack of participation from pilots encourages the company to engage with the Association to craft something suitable and detailed. Yes, I am completely heartless when it comes to senior FA's making as much as a 1st year FO, and more than some Captains at the Regional s. |
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Exactly!
Originally Posted by Bwipilot
(Post 3015605)
My guess is that early retirements are much more valuable at other airlines since it reduces displacements between fleet types--especially when the retirements are mainly from fleets that won't fly again soon in any case. Alas, at SWA, there's little cost to downgrading a bunch of captains and furloughing FOs--maybe two months of furlough pay and 15 trips of right seat pay for the downgrade. The SWA CEO is an accountant first and foremost---who realizes quickly that there's not much money saved by offering early retirements.
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