Pilot ETO Program
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: 737
Posts: 190
My guess is that early retirements are much more valuable at other airlines since it reduces displacements between fleet types--especially when the retirements are mainly from fleets that won't fly again soon in any case. Alas, at SWA, there's little cost to downgrading a bunch of captains and furloughing FOs--maybe two months of furlough pay and 15 trips of right seat pay for the downgrade. The SWA CEO is an accountant first and foremost---who realizes quickly that there's not much money saved by offering early retirements.
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 85
A talked to a Chief in Dallas on one of my sits last trip about this. He said the problem with early retirements is most of those guys participate in the Top Hat program, which I believe is company managed. If they retire, the company has to distribute that, which is many, many millions. Never thought of that.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,375
Pilot ETO Program
A talked to a Chief in Dallas on one of my sits last trip about this. He said the problem with early retirements is most of those guys participate in the Top Hat program, which I believe is company managed. If they retire, the company has to distribute that, which is many, many millions. Never thought of that.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Idiot conversations like this are why I never ask a Chief about anything not related to their actual job.
That is the dumbest reason I have ever heard. That top hat money is accounted for on the balance sheet and while the company is "holding it", it isn't theirs and never will be.
Early retirements would be a good fit to save money. Buy guys off at the top of the list for a good price. They lose their 1600 sick bank that they had planned on burning down and go home and collect a check and wait for the market to eventually bottom out and come back with a vengeance. Win win.
Here is the problem: pilots at SWA are just another employee. What you offer to one employee at SWA, you have to offer to everyone. We would have to name a new VP to invent a program for everyone and give it a different acronym than every other airline.
The other problem is that the company absolutely refuses to own the poor decision to overman the pilot group despite every indicator and line pilot saying it was a terrible idea. Remember a few months ago when everyone was in disbelief on how overmanned we were? That's when we had 87 percent load factors. That poor planning decision is currently costing them millions of dollars a month. Who will suffer the consequences for that? Hint...look in the mirror.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,546
Idiot conversations like this are why I never ask a Chief about anything not related to their actual job.
That is the dumbest reason I have ever heard. That top hat money is accounted for on the balance sheet and while the company is "holding it", it isn't theirs and never will be=12pt.
That is the dumbest reason I have ever heard. That top hat money is accounted for on the balance sheet and while the company is "holding it", it isn't theirs and never will be=12pt.
To look at this scenario through very bullish glasses, perhaps they don’t want to give early outs (just yet) so that when things come roaring back they’ll have the man power and MAXes to really grab some extra market share. I don’t know. Crazier things have happened in this industry.
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,375
Au contraire! Top Hat money can be theirs if things got bad enough and they declared bankruptcy. That’s a pretty doom & gloom scenario but I’m just playing devils advocate.
To look at this scenario through very bullish glasses, perhaps they don’t want to give early outs (just yet) so that when things come roaring back they’ll have the man power and MAXes to really grab some extra market share. I don’t know. Crazier things have happened in this industry.
To look at this scenario through very bullish glasses, perhaps they don’t want to give early outs (just yet) so that when things come roaring back they’ll have the man power and MAXes to really grab some extra market share. I don’t know. Crazier things have happened in this industry.
Yeah I totally get the Ch 11 scenario. I should have put that out there. Lots of guys put money in top hat back in the day thinking that could never happen. It is a line item on a balance sheet, so it is fair game.
#27
Spirit is 50 @ $210 = $10.500 (over 95% are captain at year 5, and all can hold it, so I think fair comparison)
#28
LUV our FA's
The Association was not allowed to help put this together. Offer to help was rebuffed.
I liked reading the FA union response, recommending against taking this.
I hope TOTAL lack of participation from pilots encourages the company to engage with the Association to craft something suitable and detailed.
I liked reading the FA union response, recommending against taking this.
I hope TOTAL lack of participation from pilots encourages the company to engage with the Association to craft something suitable and detailed.
Yes, I am completely heartless when it comes to senior FA's making as much as a 1st year FO, and more than some Captains at the Regional s.
#30
Exactly!
My guess is that early retirements are much more valuable at other airlines since it reduces displacements between fleet types--especially when the retirements are mainly from fleets that won't fly again soon in any case. Alas, at SWA, there's little cost to downgrading a bunch of captains and furloughing FOs--maybe two months of furlough pay and 15 trips of right seat pay for the downgrade. The SWA CEO is an accountant first and foremost---who realizes quickly that there's not much money saved by offering early retirements.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mmaviator
Flight Schools and Training
6
07-21-2011 03:36 PM