Cargo MOU
06-12-2020, 06:26 PM
#51
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Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by Spicy McHaggis
From someone on the outside of it....
What is the deal with the MOU? Why was flying cargo prohibited before and what protections are you gaining or losing with this?
What is the deal with the MOU? Why was flying cargo prohibited before and what protections are you gaining or losing with this?
We gain not having one more grievance on top of a industry-leading pile of grievances, and "gain" by not getting smeared in the public eye by suing the company over a revenue-making option during a crisis.
We give up a CBA re-opener for a year, and a great many people are so ****ed off at SWA about the huge pile of grievances that it's considered a net loss for the pilot group that we didn't get ANY goodwill reacharound in the form of even a verbal promise to take a look at that huge stack of grievances someday in the near future. The company has been allegedly abusing the CBA for years, so a lot of the pilot group feel that in spite of the crisis, we ought to be picking low-hanging fruit by forcing the company to at least deal with the huge grievance backlog before we agree to ANY CBA change of any sort.
Apparently, 93% of 66% aren't willing to leave that much potential revenue on the table for the sole reason that the company has proven itself untrustworthy and a bitter bitter enemy during negotiations. SWAPA had to strike during the last round, and our mechanics had an awfully destructive round of delayed negotiations that STILL have unresolved lawsuits pending. There is a massive trust deficit between the company and it's plumbers (yes GK called the pilots plumbers), and it's continuing to pile up.
The trust deficit is so bad, that 60 yr old pilots who will get paid half their salary to simply go home and not come to work are desperately searching for the loophole where the company plans to screw them over, before they accept the VSP offer. That's a pathetic statement about SWA leadership, that an amazing early retirement offer is being picked apart for apparently no reason other than nobody trusts SWA leadership. That's a huge leadership fail.
So.. There's part of the long answer on why this MOU was such a big deal. It's basically a little proxy battle that measured how ****ed off the pilots are at the company. And the results show that even though the trust deficit is real, we're not quite willing to burn it to the ground as a result. I wouldn't place any bets that this would be predictive of how a future strike vote might go after the pandemic crisis is over though. We saw daily how destructive the mechanics contract negotiations were to those employees and the company as a whole, and I don't think anyone has any intention of letting our negotiations drag on that long no matter how much cargo we fly in the next 365 days or how many guys take one for the team by taking the VSP.
06-15-2020, 12:16 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by flensr
Cargo was prohibited by section 1. The company tried to just do it anyhow even though we're already in negotiations which is pretty much a guaranteed lawsuit loss for the company, but given the industry crisis and how freaking huge our grievance stack is, SWAPA (and 93% of 66%) decided that it would be better to just throw a 1-year negotiated change in scope instead of fighting it in court while possibly giving away millions in revenue that could help #saveDean.
We gain not having one more grievance on top of a industry-leading pile of grievances, and "gain" by not getting smeared in the public eye by suing the company over a revenue-making option during a crisis.
We give up a CBA re-opener for a year, and a great many people are so ****ed off at SWA about the huge pile of grievances that it's considered a net loss for the pilot group that we didn't get ANY goodwill reacharound in the form of even a verbal promise to take a look at that huge stack of grievances someday in the near future. The company has been allegedly abusing the CBA for years, so a lot of the pilot group feel that in spite of the crisis, we ought to be picking low-hanging fruit by forcing the company to at least deal with the huge grievance backlog before we agree to ANY CBA change of any sort.
Apparently, 93% of 66% aren't willing to leave that much potential revenue on the table for the sole reason that the company has proven itself untrustworthy and a bitter bitter enemy during negotiations. SWAPA had to strike during the last round, and our mechanics had an awfully destructive round of delayed negotiations that STILL have unresolved lawsuits pending. There is a massive trust deficit between the company and it's plumbers (yes GK called the pilots plumbers), and it's continuing to pile up.
The trust deficit is so bad, that 60 yr old pilots who will get paid half their salary to simply go home and not come to work are desperately searching for the loophole where the company plans to screw them over, before they accept the VSP offer. That's a pathetic statement about SWA leadership, that an amazing early retirement offer is being picked apart for apparently no reason other than nobody trusts SWA leadership. That's a huge leadership fail.
So.. There's part of the long answer on why this MOU was such a big deal. It's basically a little proxy battle that measured how ****ed off the pilots are at the company. And the results show that even though the trust deficit is real, we're not quite willing to burn it to the ground as a result. I wouldn't place any bets that this would be predictive of how a future strike vote might go after the pandemic crisis is over though. We saw daily how destructive the mechanics contract negotiations were to those employees and the company as a whole, and I don't think anyone has any intention of letting our negotiations drag on that long no matter how much cargo we fly in the next 365 days or how many guys take one for the team by taking the VSP.
We gain not having one more grievance on top of a industry-leading pile of grievances, and "gain" by not getting smeared in the public eye by suing the company over a revenue-making option during a crisis.
We give up a CBA re-opener for a year, and a great many people are so ****ed off at SWA about the huge pile of grievances that it's considered a net loss for the pilot group that we didn't get ANY goodwill reacharound in the form of even a verbal promise to take a look at that huge stack of grievances someday in the near future. The company has been allegedly abusing the CBA for years, so a lot of the pilot group feel that in spite of the crisis, we ought to be picking low-hanging fruit by forcing the company to at least deal with the huge grievance backlog before we agree to ANY CBA change of any sort.
Apparently, 93% of 66% aren't willing to leave that much potential revenue on the table for the sole reason that the company has proven itself untrustworthy and a bitter bitter enemy during negotiations. SWAPA had to strike during the last round, and our mechanics had an awfully destructive round of delayed negotiations that STILL have unresolved lawsuits pending. There is a massive trust deficit between the company and it's plumbers (yes GK called the pilots plumbers), and it's continuing to pile up.
The trust deficit is so bad, that 60 yr old pilots who will get paid half their salary to simply go home and not come to work are desperately searching for the loophole where the company plans to screw them over, before they accept the VSP offer. That's a pathetic statement about SWA leadership, that an amazing early retirement offer is being picked apart for apparently no reason other than nobody trusts SWA leadership. That's a huge leadership fail.
So.. There's part of the long answer on why this MOU was such a big deal. It's basically a little proxy battle that measured how ****ed off the pilots are at the company. And the results show that even though the trust deficit is real, we're not quite willing to burn it to the ground as a result. I wouldn't place any bets that this would be predictive of how a future strike vote might go after the pandemic crisis is over though. We saw daily how destructive the mechanics contract negotiations were to those employees and the company as a whole, and I don't think anyone has any intention of letting our negotiations drag on that long no matter how much cargo we fly in the next 365 days or how many guys take one for the team by taking the VSP.
Our NC negotiated charter pay (1.5x) rate for the cargo flying. To say that was not a win that’s incorrect. If you think the company was going to wipe down all the grievances over something that would benefit the bottom half of the list your incorrect. Our NC committee is literally the best team this union has ever had. Talk to any of them and they will gladly explain their positions with you.
06-15-2020, 04:08 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by Zman81
Our NC negotiated charter pay (1.5x) rate for the cargo flying. To say that was not a win that’s incorrect. If you think the company was going to wipe down all the grievances over something that would benefit the bottom half of the list your incorrect. Our NC committee is literally the best team this union has ever had. Talk to any of them and they will gladly explain their positions with you.
I also didn't and don't think the company was going to do anything about the grievances.
I DID attempt to summarize some of the issues causing angst over the MOU, without putting much of my personal opinion in there.
But since you seem to think you know what I think about the MOU, here's my opinion.
I voted for the MOU. I think it will help the company during the current crisis. While I would not support the hindsight agreement since I felt it was a "convenience give" to the company, I did support the cargo MOU for a wide variety of issues. I have a large personal "trust deficit" with the company, over more than just the big stack of grievances, but I did not consider this a valid reason to vote against the cargo MOU.
Also, I did directly contact my base reps to express my support for the cargo MOU, just as I contacted them to express my opposition to the hindsight deal.
There, that's my opinion, as opposed to my previous summary of some of the issues surrounding the MOU. Now you can feel free to try to pick apart my opinion. Just don't make up stuff and claim that it's what I do or do not think.
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