There's probably a lot of context that I'm missing from DL's AIP. But at first glance, that deal isn't great. It may be just good enough to get 50.1%, but I can't say for sure. My DL buddies aren't too happy with it so far. SWAPA knows the expectations of the pilot group and they'll get the right deal done.

 

Solid start on everything else, but rates of pay and retro are nowhere near my yes threshold, so NO.

Someone brought up a great point in another thread. The company is clearly aiming to eliminate premium again, so the rate increases have to be substantial enough and based on min guarantee, not some imaginary number based on the time we were understaffed.

 

Yawn - that’s a “NO”

Basic economics - to cover real inflation, we need at least 35%. That is just to keep us even. Any catch up or real improvement will have to be in the 40% + range.

What the heck is the 4% retro for 2020 & 2021?!?! Are these guys asleep at the switch.

But - they will get to ride in First Class when deadheading on red eyes. BFD

Not just a “No” if they come back with something like this but “No - not even close”

 

Just on rates, we need 55% to achieve real parity with what 737-800 pilots at UA were making 22 years ago. Then, if we'd like any kind of a raise for the last 22 years,we need more than 55%.

And rates aren't even the most important thing we need fixed. There's so much more. We're like a run-down, old, rat-infested house that simply needs to be demolished and built new to modern standards from the ground up.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the new Alaska contract and now this Delta AIP are effectively lowering the bar for SWAPA and providing cover for them to come to us with a very underwhelming deal.

How's that RLA education push coming? Wen strike authorization vote? It's not looking good for us right now.

 

Are you serious when you’re saying Deltas AIP is lowering the bar for SWAPA? You can’t be serious! No way!

 

Delta's AIP was supposed to be "generational." It's not. It may be better described as "iterative."

In so many ways, our contract already lags Delta's by a wide margin. If history is any guide, SWA pilots will approve, because they have in the past, a contract that again lags Delta's.

Had Delta produced a "generational" product, then SWAPA's work would have been cut out for them. Since that's not what happened, SWAPA can do what it typically does: negotiate an underwhelming deal that, after we approve it, many of our pilots will begin realizing is nowhere near industry leading despite the way SWAPA sold it.

Delta's AIP takes the pressure off of SWAPA. I don't expect to be wowed at all. I hope I'm wrong, obviously, but I've been here a while and I've seen how this typically goes.

 

Hell NO to that AIP. The rates haven’t increased enough and the company got further incentivized to drag out future negations because they’re not paying full retro.

I’ve been assured by our NC that everyone in the negotiating room knows that full retro is not to be even questioned for us. I just hope their definition of it is the same as mine. That is that the newly agreed upon pay rates are applied back to the amendable date of our contract and the difference is what we would have earned had those rates started then and what we actually earned since then.

Look at your crystal balls. They are REALLY easy to read when it comes to future compensation at SWA. Hiring will significantly outpace aircraft growth. It’s obvious they want to staff like it’s 2018 again. Premium will be gone (it’s already drying up). I can’t say it enough:

*** It’s imperative that we base our expectations of compensation on an overstaffed airline and minimum monthly guarantee. Therefore, our TFP rates need to come up huge unless we want to find ourselves making less money under a new contract than we did under the current one with leaner manning. ***

 

Help with some math and industry POV.

Some of the proposals here (55-60%) would require a non-negligible increase in fares, headed into an economic downturn.

Does anyone know the average pilot wage spread across the group? It would simplify the math.

EBITDA has run around $4B with net running $2B pre-Covid. A $50k increase across 10,000 pilots is $500MM, or 25% of net (approx 2.5% top-line). I get the sense that a $50k increase on avg is not popular here.

The avg fare for 2019 looks like $128 - ish.

If the goal of the pilot group is $75k avg bump or 100k…has anyone run the math on how that affects sales? How many fewer flight will be flown, and how much will the profit sharing be reduced?

Also, is there any discussion to unite the overall employee groups or encouragement to maximize top-line? I read stuff on here that seems counter-productive to the business. Surely everyone understands more total profits and a better customer experience provided by a united hard-working team gives everyone more bargaining power.

I’m concerned (wondering) about hitching my wagon to a group that isn’t focused on being better than the competition to ensure long-term security and revenue. The pie will shrink in a down-turn but it seems like pilots could set a great tone to grow a bigger share of that pie with the slightest bit of focus on where the bread gets buttered.

What am I missing? Some attitudes here are a death march toward automation, and a divided workforce which is easily beaten in negotiations. Check out the rail deal. No savior for unions regardless of party.

I have ZERO 121 experience. Outsider. Wannabe. Clueless.

Educate me.

Tell me why if I was running the union I wouldn’t want every pilot setting the tone, BELOVED by customers, their kids, and ALL of the other staff groups making it happen? Why wouldn’t I want other pilots from other companies jealous as hell of the SWA experience? Why wouldn’t I want the folks on the ramp feeling appreciated as part of one team, with a culture lead by pilots (who might go toss a bag once in awhile)?

Why wouldn’t I want the PILOTS to be the face of the airline, always supporting the brand? When it comes time for negotiations, NOW you hold the cards at the table because you are more than just an expense, you are the top line.

Maybe I’m crazy but the pilots/team are the ones who see the customers every day, not the CSuite. Why not own that, and control the brand?

As a former employer, its so strange to read about members of the team essentially sabotaging profits. The contract and striking becomes the only leverage…thats so backwards in a customer facing environment where the front line has the ability to OWN the brand. Be undeniable, get paid.

Blast away. I want to understand this beast.

 

Because it is not our problem to figure out how the company can make a profit. That's why they C-Suite is paid millions. If the cost of tickets need to go up, so be it. Everything is going up in price from food, gas, power, travel etc. Your entire post is essentially telling us to sell out for the sake of the company. No thanks.

 

Maybe try setting the bar next time instead of waiting for someone else to do it?