There's no way to say what would have happened at Southwest because the "process" was never completed. Based on what happened around that time, the WARN notices were basically a bluff. They were sent before xmas but were dated much further into the future then they needed to. Also, SWAPA asked asked a number of times for data and wanted to sit down and discuss with the company. However, the company never provided data, and didn't sit down, no doubt because data would have showed the truth which was they were no position to furlough.

The big question is, what will happen if there is a time in the future where the company IS in a position to furlough? Based on there actions this time, "Herb's airline" is gone and they will. I would say however that if Southwest if furloughing, the rest of the industry would have to be in deep trouble also...

 

30 years left and life in Dallas? AA 100%.

 

Why? What are your reasons?

 

yep! Told them to shove that 10% and force majeure up GK ass.

 

Some people say that but they are only a random person on the internet telling someone else what to do. Look at what people decide for themselves. I had offers at both and live in the DFW area. I chose to go and stay at SWA. I know people that chose to go to AA instead. Decide for yourself and don't listen to other people saying "you're dumb if you don't go to X". They don't have any skin in the game.

 

This whole 737 bashing has gotten kinda popular on APC and it seems to be mostly millennials... Personally, I couldn't give two sh*ts what type of airplane I'm flying for living.

I do, however, care about:

- the size of my paycheck and all that it entails - retirement contributions, profit sharing, career pay, etc.
- the ratio of time spent at work getting that paycheck vs. enjoying my time off at home doing stuff I really like doing.
- stability of the airline given that I already went through the character-building of losing a career airline gig because of egos and incompetence that drove the airline into the ground. Not interested in repeating the same thing again.

Some of koolies here will point to Southwest as being the obvious choice. Not so fast amigos.

While it's true I've been making a really good coin at Southwest, I worked my a$$ off for it and the ratio of time spent at work vs. enjoying time off at home doing stuff I like doing has been grossly out of balance. If the upgrade time was 8-10 years everywhere else, I'd say Southwest hands down because you can find your balance but still make the coin. Given that one can upgrade that much sooner at every other legacy, you are far better off at a legacy because the math just doesn't work otherwise unless Southwest pilot group gets the pay raise that's north of 50-60%. Over the course of one's career, that difference is easily translated well into 7 figures at the end of the road.

One thing I will caution every prospective pilot here.

DO NOT buy into the whole CULTure narrative. What you've read in "Nuts!" has long been killed off, run over by a truck about a dozen times, set ablaze about half dozen times, buried, stomped over at least two dozen times, filled with more dirt, then run over with a bulldozer, flattened again and then cemented. Anyone who's been around this industry longer than a few years will tell you that any successful airline is literally one bad CEO and one bad management team away from its demise. As much as it pains me to say it, I think Southwest is there now. I have lost any and all faith in our management and our BOD. As someone on the cusp of upgrade, I'm seriously considering leaving. And I'm not the only one. This management team only cares about the current stock price. They seem like they couldn't care less about the long-term health and viability of Southwest Airlines...

Just my 0.02 cents....

 

Would it not be fair to argue AAL has done the same thing but with a larger looming shortage of pilots in the near future? Not to discredit anything you’re saying, just comparing the two.

AAL seems to be attempting to hire to keep supply v growth. SWA is hiring to grow rather than replenish. Over the next decade it seems SWA May be in a better spot.

Naturally, who knows?

I agree with your points of caring where you fly. I am in the same boat. May I ask how many days on v day off you typically have?

 

Here’s an opinion:

AA is the stabler place to be FOR DFW. If everything goes kablooey you can retreat to NB FO. SW you have fewer places to hide

 

United’s no furlough agreement was a reality and voted in. You saying that furloughs notices were only managements bluff is your opinion, not the reality of the moment.

It seems you still have the belief that SW will always fair better than the others in bad times. You said it yourself “Herb’s (little) Airline” is gone and the trajectory appears to be continuing south. The Big 3 will always have different issues because they aren’t just domestic airlines but I’d say they are all on an upward swing with better leadership than before. SW is just another airline now and from posts on here and from watching the media not one of the good ones.

 

AA has a huge wave of retirements coming up. Our retirement wave is a ripple by comparison and scattered.

As a line holder, I get 18-19 days off per month..... when I start my line. But because retirement contributions are very important to me as well as the ever-present potential of going out on long term disability, which means just to reach the max payout, you need to make over 20k per month to get the max pay out should the unthinkable happen. So I pick up and I end up working 18-19 days a month. Not being on standby or sitting reserve at home, but actually flying. Some months more. Some months less if I have vacation that month or if I get sick. At Southwest, you'll have to do that for years to come because you will not have an opportunity to upgrade.

Something else... at many other airlines, being on reserve means you often times don't fly. At Southwest, if you aren't used on reserve, someone higher up gets hockey-punched and then kicked in the nuts because they allowed you to steal from the company. In other words, whereas every other airline tends to use reserves as insurance policy, at Southwest, reserves are used because the company doesn't like people sitting at home getting paid.

And since I mentioned LTD... this company will pretend you're family and a very much LUVed (our CEO constantly tells us he luvs us), but if you get disabled, you might as well be dead to this company. In fact, if you have life insurance through the company, you should hope to die before your sick leave balance runs out because once it does, your life insurance through the company is no longer valid.