Is SW really that bad?
05-24-2023 | 06:59 PM
#61
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
From: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
We do have a base where chair flying the days segments chock to chock evaluating various advanced aerodynamic phenomenon and other aircraft advanced flight path management techniques prior to van time is common practice.
So I can see the 2 hours prior requirement.
So I can see the 2 hours prior requirement.
05-24-2023 | 07:00 PM
#62
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 488
Likes: 12
Hoover, lewbronski, and MikeBB all nailed it. Our schedules are horrendous. I’m a ex regional guy and I often find our schedules to be worse than my XJT days. My other regional friends agree. The statement about things getting worse YOY….dead on accurate.
MikeBB addressing how out of touch management is with our operation….100%. It is palatable all the way down the food chain. You would thing our leadership brief in CQT might have been served with some humility after the melt down….nope.
Timed out for the second in a month yesterday, days are long hard and early starts. I don’t know how I’m going to do these schedules for 25 more years. I won’t even entertain PMs bc of my friends stories.
I lurk often but never post. It is as bad as you can imagine. I felt compelled to sign into the account to share. I’m a senior FO.
MikeBB addressing how out of touch management is with our operation….100%. It is palatable all the way down the food chain. You would thing our leadership brief in CQT might have been served with some humility after the melt down….nope.
Timed out for the second in a month yesterday, days are long hard and early starts. I don’t know how I’m going to do these schedules for 25 more years. I won’t even entertain PMs bc of my friends stories.
I lurk often but never post. It is as bad as you can imagine. I felt compelled to sign into the account to share. I’m a senior FO.
im coming from a regional that gave me 11 days off as a LINEHOLDER. So much complaining on this board like SW doesn’t pay well even BEFORE the new contract. Yes it can and should improve with the new contract , but let’s not act like the sky is falling. More chaos = more $. It just might require one to put that internet surfing sesh on the iPad on hold at midnight and get some sleep.
with that said I will be bidding AM reserve to avoid doing a post flight walk around after 14 hrs at 4 am.
05-24-2023 | 07:01 PM
#63
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 65
Likes: 27
I’ve been a lurker on these threads for awhile. I’m a mil guy so I’m learning my way in the 121 world. I know it’s contract negotiation time, but some of the posts have me really second guessing coming here. I have CJOs from a few legacies and SW. The majority of SW pilots I know are good people and generally happy being there. I know December was bad, but is the company really on a death spiral as some on here would have you believe? SWAPA absolutely crushes the company on social media. I know a lot of that is part of getting a new contract, but it’s tough not to read what they have to say and question a decision to come here.
I remember reading Delta threads before they got a contract and it was similar. Now it’s happy days at widget. I always thought of SW as great company, but I don’t want to go to a sinking ship.
I remember reading Delta threads before they got a contract and it was similar. Now it’s happy days at widget. I always thought of SW as great company, but I don’t want to go to a sinking ship.
I had a CJO from UA, decided on SWA, well i credit more and work less than my buddies there. Our work rules are better. A lot will disagree until we get a new contract. There were multiple guys in our batch who had CJO from other majors.
Now the downside is the operational side. A lot is to be desired on the organization. Re route do happen but you can mitigate by flying morning, less problems from what i have seen. Constant negative news on the medias and it wears down on our pilot group.
Guys will make beautiful graphs on the forums telling you, how much you ll lose by joining SWA. Nothing is certain, back in 2007 DL had big economical issues. UA furlough multiples times from 2000 onward...
You can always join and see if you like it, UA CJO are valid up to a year. You work hard for your cash at SWA and lifetime on GUPPY. Or you can go to a major and enjoy WB jetlag and work less at work. You can get based with UA @IAH on 757 go to MUC, GIG, do two night flights on your circadian rythm in 3days and log 20h. Or you can credit 20 tfp in 3 days with SWA fly 10 legs and get zero jet lag. Each their own
Ask your buddies at major how many block hours vs credit hours. Days off etc. Go where you get the most money days off and the least amount of work.
05-24-2023 | 07:08 PM
#64
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 488
Likes: 12
Hey! Forums on Southwest are very negative. Some reasons are valid other are not. I was hired back in October and it has been a great quality of life. I do AM, no night flights. I used ELITT wisely spending the time to do so, kicked out all 4 days for nice 2 days. I try to clear my board when I can to make more, with what I can do with my low seniority. Sick days accrual is really good comparing to other majors. It s a great group of pilot. We have fun at work and most of guys don t take themselves too seriously.
I had a CJO from UA, decided on SWA, well i credit more and work less than my buddies there. Our work rules are better. A lot will disagree until we get a new contract. There were multiple guys in our batch who had CJO from other majors.
Now the downside is the operational side. A lot is to be desired on the organization. Re route do happen but you can mitigate by flying morning, less problems from what i have seen. Constant negative news on the medias and it wears down on our pilot group.
Guys will make beautiful graphs on the forums telling you, how much you ll lose by joining SWA. Nothing is certain, back in 2007 DL had big economical issues. UA furlough multiples times from 2000 onward...
You can always join and see if you like it, UA CJO are valid up to a year. You work hard for your cash at SWA and lifetime on GUPPY. Or you can go to a major and enjoy WB jetlag and work less at work. You can get based with UA @IAH on 757 go to MUC, GIG, do two night flights on your circadian rythm in 3days and log 20h. Or you can credit 20 tfp in 3 days with SWA fly 10 legs and get zero jet lag. Each their own
Ask your buddies at major how many block hours vs credit hours. Days off etc. Go where you get the most money days off and the least amount of work.
I had a CJO from UA, decided on SWA, well i credit more and work less than my buddies there. Our work rules are better. A lot will disagree until we get a new contract. There were multiple guys in our batch who had CJO from other majors.
Now the downside is the operational side. A lot is to be desired on the organization. Re route do happen but you can mitigate by flying morning, less problems from what i have seen. Constant negative news on the medias and it wears down on our pilot group.
Guys will make beautiful graphs on the forums telling you, how much you ll lose by joining SWA. Nothing is certain, back in 2007 DL had big economical issues. UA furlough multiples times from 2000 onward...
You can always join and see if you like it, UA CJO are valid up to a year. You work hard for your cash at SWA and lifetime on GUPPY. Or you can go to a major and enjoy WB jetlag and work less at work. You can get based with UA @IAH on 757 go to MUC, GIG, do two night flights on your circadian rythm in 3days and log 20h. Or you can credit 20 tfp in 3 days with SWA fly 10 legs and get zero jet lag. Each their own
Ask your buddies at major how many block hours vs credit hours. Days off etc. Go where you get the most money days off and the least amount of work.
05-24-2023 | 07:17 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
2 hrs before? WTF do you need to do in the morning? I set an alarm for :45 min before van on the rare occasion I have to do an AM. Shower and shave the night before, have everything mostly packed up before going to bed. Hit snooze, get up, brush teeth, throw on deodorant, finish packing and out the door. I'm with RJ....you're doing something wrong. At 20+ yrs here you should be able to do banker's hours trips with 2-3 legs a day max....or your base is awful.
That’s Olympic-level getting ready and driving skills.
05-24-2023 | 09:20 PM
#66
On Reserve
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
I seriously think the younger guys, less than 45 or so, underestimate how tired they’re gonna feel when they get older. I sure did.
I’m in good shape, not overweight, eat pretty healthy, and our trips are getting worse and worse. Been here for more than 8 years, and I choose low hour trips, and I get tired. The lines have definitely gotten more and more dense since I’ve been here, and with our regular delays and disruptions, good luck.
I’m doubtful I can do this until 65. For all you guys loving the big money from schedule disruptions, I’d spend some time thinking about whether you’ll be able to do 5 continental or 6 inter island legs, or 7+ hour block days in a 737 without your health falling apart when you’re 60+…
I’m in good shape, not overweight, eat pretty healthy, and our trips are getting worse and worse. Been here for more than 8 years, and I choose low hour trips, and I get tired. The lines have definitely gotten more and more dense since I’ve been here, and with our regular delays and disruptions, good luck.
I’m doubtful I can do this until 65. For all you guys loving the big money from schedule disruptions, I’d spend some time thinking about whether you’ll be able to do 5 continental or 6 inter island legs, or 7+ hour block days in a 737 without your health falling apart when you’re 60+…
05-25-2023 | 05:04 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 283
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
This forum is so toxic. Do yall even work the same airline that I do?
I dont think I have ever had a duty day longer than 11 hours, and the vast majority are less than 9.
I made more in my first year than my buddy did at AA.
Sometimes we have short overnights, most of the time they are plenty long.
Sometimes we stay in smallish towns with not great hotels, most of the hotels are plenty nice and some of them are really nice.
Sometimes we have lots of legs, Ive never had more than 4 in a day, and 90% of the time it is 3 or less.
Basically this place is a sounding board for the same 10 guys that have terrible attitudes and are always ****ed off and *****ing about how their life sucks.
I'm glad I came here and I enjoy it. But I choose to have a good attitude and not worry about much. That's the viewpoint you'll get from almost everyone on the line.
We need a new contract with super high pay rates and everything else that needs to be rewritten and added. I voted Yes on the SAV and have my strike bag tag for you haters.
I dont think I have ever had a duty day longer than 11 hours, and the vast majority are less than 9.
I made more in my first year than my buddy did at AA.
Sometimes we have short overnights, most of the time they are plenty long.
Sometimes we stay in smallish towns with not great hotels, most of the hotels are plenty nice and some of them are really nice.
Sometimes we have lots of legs, Ive never had more than 4 in a day, and 90% of the time it is 3 or less.
Basically this place is a sounding board for the same 10 guys that have terrible attitudes and are always ****ed off and *****ing about how their life sucks.
I'm glad I came here and I enjoy it. But I choose to have a good attitude and not worry about much. That's the viewpoint you'll get from almost everyone on the line.
We need a new contract with super high pay rates and everything else that needs to be rewritten and added. I voted Yes on the SAV and have my strike bag tag for you haters.
05-25-2023 | 05:37 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 283
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
From an NOC employee’s perspective, this is the largest issue too. Front line employees are giving their feedback about the host of issues, yet the manager level is diluting/not reporting 80% of issues when reporting up, and the problems the VP level does know about are totally covered up and all is peachy when reporting to their leaders.
VP SL and BW were asked in a quarterly luncheon with HDQ folk last year what they thought the largest issue with SWA was. Their answer? The unions and their anti company attitude are the biggest risk. They also mentioned that attrition has gone up yes, but everyone who leaves SWA seems to regret it.
The level of arrogance and exceptionalism is just crazy. I really don’t understand the company’s lack of ability to have accountability. There needs to be thinning out of 90% of the management ranks and a “reset” in order for this to be fixed.
The one thing SWA has going for it is the company has hired a good chunk of people at HDQ who have company kool aid attitudes and will bow down no matter what.
VP SL and BW were asked in a quarterly luncheon with HDQ folk last year what they thought the largest issue with SWA was. Their answer? The unions and their anti company attitude are the biggest risk. They also mentioned that attrition has gone up yes, but everyone who leaves SWA seems to regret it.
The level of arrogance and exceptionalism is just crazy. I really don’t understand the company’s lack of ability to have accountability. There needs to be thinning out of 90% of the management ranks and a “reset” in order for this to be fixed.
The one thing SWA has going for it is the company has hired a good chunk of people at HDQ who have company kool aid attitudes and will bow down no matter what.
05-25-2023 | 05:48 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,656
Likes: 302
:45 is for a overnight. I live :45 from the airport so I leave my hour an hour prior to report and if I have to set an alarm it’s :45 prior to that. If your 2-3 am wake up is for a 4:30-5 am show on day 1 and you live more than an hour away…that makes more sense. I read it as you get up that early all the time…my apologies if I misread it.
05-25-2023 | 05:49 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,656
Likes: 302
I seriously think the younger guys, less than 45 or so, underestimate how tired they’re gonna feel when they get older. I sure did.
I’m in good shape, not overweight, eat pretty healthy, and our trips are getting worse and worse. Been here for more than 8 years, and I choose low hour trips, and I get tired. The lines have definitely gotten more and more dense since I’ve been here, and with our regular delays and disruptions, good luck.
I’m doubtful I can do this until 65. For all you guys loving the big money from schedule disruptions, I’d spend some time thinking about whether you’ll be able to do 5 continental or 6 inter island legs, or 7+ hour block days in a 737 without your health falling apart when you’re 60+…
I’m in good shape, not overweight, eat pretty healthy, and our trips are getting worse and worse. Been here for more than 8 years, and I choose low hour trips, and I get tired. The lines have definitely gotten more and more dense since I’ve been here, and with our regular delays and disruptions, good luck.
I’m doubtful I can do this until 65. For all you guys loving the big money from schedule disruptions, I’d spend some time thinking about whether you’ll be able to do 5 continental or 6 inter island legs, or 7+ hour block days in a 737 without your health falling apart when you’re 60+…
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