Originally Posted by KnockKnock

This line of thinking is exactly how we fell so far behind the industry. Time, value of money. Lock this in now and get 'em next time. We'll lose too much money due to the time it takes to continue negotiating. Etc. Etc. This thinking is why we, at AS, in 2022, had to spend all our negotiating time and capital on Scope and Work rules. Things almost every other major airline has had for years if not decades. The NC focued on the same 4 pillars from the JCBA negotiations. Did "mostly" fine there but left the rest of the contract untouched. We won't see this negotiating environment again. This is a once in a career moment. There is no getting them next time, my friend.

Originally Posted by OTZeagle1

I was a huge advocate for a new contract. I wanted the industry for all Alaska pilots. I just wasn’t stupid and wanting $500hr, 25 days a month off, and a new pony!

Originally Posted by conquestdz

One man's bravery is another's stupidity much as one man's "capitulating to the fear of a downturn" is another's "making the most rational decision based on the best information available". This TA has the potential to be really big for us even though there are a couple holes in it. It seems to me that passing this is the logical move. If the economy does crash, we will be sitting pretty for a couple years with nice raises and QOL. If it doesn't, then the pilot shortage will become more acute, we will snap up with our peers as they scramble to compete, and we will continue to have the necessary leverage to fill those TA holes because no airline can afford to be behind in the job market if they want to grow or even stay the same size.

Originally Posted by conquestdz

Which holes are you referring to? The carve out for the red eye turns stinks, but it's a relatively small portion of our bid packages and not worth torpedoing the whole deal over. What else do you see as missing?

Originally Posted by Back2future

Only JetBlue has wocl override.
reserve days off is better than some plus the reserve work rules are better than most.
DC is at par or better, with a snap up clause.
Sick time is par or better
So you're saying you think we can go back and double or even triple retro and keep all the other improvements in the time it would have taken for the new pay rates and work rules to generate
​​​​​whatever increase your new retro fantasy has?

Originally Posted by OTZeagle1

Whatever dude… I told everyone when the contract was done, remember that. From the word go, I said 80%, because those were the numbers, my actual prediction was 81% and I lined it up for everyone. I guaranteed it pasted by 75% +-3, knowing it would for sure pass by that margin. what did people say to that 🤔. Sorry dude it did not pass by 85%. If I said 85% everyone would have jumped on it, see you were wrong, it wasn’t by 85%.
How about the exact upgrades to the contract, how about the exact book order. Nope back then most loud VX were still convinced the bus was staying. Go back and look, not obvious then, just obvious now.
Yup, I gave the exact furlough numbers, the union saved that.
Yes, my understanding is SWA kicked our tires last spring, AS talked with B6 but both wanted branding and control. We have been shopping HAL for the past couple of years, and yes UAL is very interested in SEA. There have been so many tea leaves flying of late for HAL, I have to believe something is about to go down. I guess we then find out if SK has to have SEA. I personally want to see us stay independent.
You know why you all hate me? I am happy, I like Alaska Airlines, and I have been very fortunate outside of aviation. I work for Alaska by choice. You all hate everything Alaska, your miserable, rude, bitter, and broke.

You all hate Alaska and I love our not so perfect company, that really makes your little group of 30, lose their minds🤭

Originally Posted by Carebear

This entire subforum is pretty much a circlejerk of 10 guys spending their entire lives bashing otz and shyguy for ever posting a shred of optimism on any issue at all. The only rumors you want to read are those of doom and gloom, and nonstop bashing of anything that is associated with any airline. You spent an entire month continuously demeaning these 2 and anyone else that didn’t agree with the views of the other 18% of your entire pilot group.

I will give you credit though, I’m kind of surprised you haven’t already started conspiring to storm Seatac to try and decertify the ALPA election (then again, it hasn’t officially been signed yet). Who knows, maybe your Scope bag tags will be replaced with, “Not my CBA” tags.

Originally Posted by av8or

Honest question:

Do you you legitimately not see a fundamental difference between someone making a case for how they read the negotiating environment, their outlook on the possibility of economic decline etc, and how that effects their decision matrix VS ….. someone saying that because they are voting yes, they must be “insert favorite pejorative” ?

One person is making a case for why they are voting yes…. end of story. The other is make
an assertion that whatever their rationale is, they are …. an idiot, chick shizzle, koolaid drinker.

You seriously see those as the same thing? 🤔🤔

As for your search, and citation of OTZ’s rhetoric… again…. That’s ONE dude. Besides…. I’m not defending EITHER side when they start throwing names because they disagree.

Bottom line… there’s 3000+ pilots that voted. And 3000+ reasons why. That’s the process. To group and ascertain the reasons, morality, intelligence of those who voted differently….. group them all together and label it, is wrong…. On both sides. IMO

Originally Posted by Cyio

I am not even sure why they would put these rates out as to me, all it is going to do is harden the resolve of the pilots to want even more. These are laughable. I agree the FO side of the table needs huge bumps, which this has, but still not enough.

Originally Posted by Grishka

Exactly! Laughable! If you are going to try to play dirty and write an email with a percentage offered, at least make it something to think about. Talk about missing the target all together.

What will next week hint at? Crew Meals? Peanut butter and jelly on wonder bread? Miracle whip and bologna? At what point should we feel insulted for being taken for idiots? Although I do like a good PBJ here and there....

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

Anything would be better than nothing, especially for AMs departing prior to 8am, PMs arriving beyond 11pm, and any flight over four hours long that transits a meal time. I don't need a hot four course meal, just recognition that sometimes food is unavailable and a tiny bag of snack mix won't cut it.

and if that meal contains even one muffin.... 🤬

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER

I struck at Airline #1 for almost three months. It’s not that I want to go that long but just remember, everyday that we walk hurts them more than it hurts us.

I think a short strike would be good for our relationship with SWA. Maybe they’d learn to take us more seriously going forward.

Originally Posted by Stitches

While I don’t disagree, I think a strike is much too easy and simple. I’d prefer we follow the lead of the Japanese bus drivers who, rather than go on strike, ran the buses (costing fuel, pay etc.) but didn’t charge fares, causing their company to lose revenue and kept expenses up causing more damage than a strike alone would have.

When, and only when we are released, I hope we will recreate the Christmas meltdown conditions on a daily basis through a series of legal work actions.

Strikes are easy because everyone goes home. I’d like the union to run an “Operation Chaos” that is so well thought out and executed that the Csuite and volunteer Army look back on the Christmas meltdown with fond memories and every employee in the NOC begs Bob to sell $11 billion of stock and to put it in the pilots pockets just to make the chaos end.