The end game...
11-11-2023 | 11:25 AM
#11
— No Relief On Scope —
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,484
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From: B737 Left Seat
The huge 1-5 yr FO pay tells me there is a pilot shortage problem they don't know how to fix., 225 is a mess, etc. they figure if you are here for 5 yrs you won't leave. I'm a 7 yr FO and if this contract is not up to my expectations I'm leaving. Too many GREAT jobs out there to stay here.
Full retro means different things to different people. Most believe it will ben3-4% per year. BS. Whatever the % raise is (say 35) apply that to 2021, then annual there after. That has to be a line in the sand or next time there is no reason for the company not to drag this out.
Full retro means different things to different people. Most believe it will ben3-4% per year. BS. Whatever the % raise is (say 35) apply that to 2021, then annual there after. That has to be a line in the sand or next time there is no reason for the company not to drag this out.
11-11-2023 | 11:25 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2015
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I think the company is holding out hope that we will bite off on the mediator's proposal. It's their last chance to get a (relative) bargain. Maybe the mediator surprises us, but I have my doubts. Assuming that's rejected, it's only a matter of time before the company caves. I can afford to be out on strike a whole lot longer than the company can afford to have their jets parked.
I'm looking forward to getting the most out of my Epic pass - bring it on.
I'm looking forward to getting the most out of my Epic pass - bring it on.
11-11-2023 | 01:10 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 101
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eh,
Why are people not talking about the interest earned on our money that the company was been racking up? That needs to be in retro also and is 100s of millions.. I require everything. Agreed this is the end game though, everyone buckle up.
Why are people not talking about the interest earned on our money that the company was been racking up? That needs to be in retro also and is 100s of millions.. I require everything. Agreed this is the end game though, everyone buckle up.
11-11-2023 | 02:47 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,622
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I think the company is holding out hope that we will bite off on the mediator's proposal. It's their last chance to get a (relative) bargain. Maybe the mediator surprises us, but I have my doubts. Assuming that's rejected, it's only a matter of time before the company caves. I can afford to be out on strike a whole lot longer than the company can afford to have their jets parked.
I'm looking forward to getting the most out of my Epic pass - bring it on.
I'm looking forward to getting the most out of my Epic pass - bring it on.
I could use a couple weeks off to get some boarding in also…
11-11-2023 | 03:41 PM
#15
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Why do you say industry leading 737 rates won’t cut it?
11-11-2023 | 03:47 PM
#16
— No Relief On Scope —
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,484
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From: B737 Left Seat
11-11-2023 | 03:48 PM
#17
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Joined: Mar 2015
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Reading the last NC update, we are far apart on compensation with the company "taken aback" by the retro and rates numbers.... Uhh yeah, y'all chose to **** around, drag this out for as long as you did, now you get to find out. The bill has become payable now, and this group ain't settling.
Personally, I think anything the mediators will come up with next week is going to be underwhelming and unratifiable. I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong, but my number isn't industry-leading 737 rates by $1. Sorry BoJo... you missed that train a couple years ago.
Also, retro numbers too big? Well shucks BoJo, you had Carl stonewalling us for how long? What did you think was gonna happen? That we were gonna swoon at you "luving on us"? Four letter acronym from Goodfellas comes to mind....
Personally, I think we'll reject the mediators' offer. From that point, I think we'll either get iced, or we'll get released to cooling off period since we already stated we're not accepting the proffer of arbitration. I also believe that the real negotiations will happen once we're released to cooling off period. Nobody wants a strike, and getting released will really kick the negotiations into high gear because if no deal reached in 30 days, 800+ aircraft get parked, and Wall Street would sh!t.
And for those who think we'll just get iced, so what? Being iced hurts Southwest way more than it'll hurt us - good luck recruiting and retaining pilots. The company and FA's worked through their "ice" and now they have a TA. Whether it passes or not is another story...
Again, I know which rates are acceptable to me. Simply put, no 737 rate in the industry is acceptable to me, and I will vote NO on anything that's not benchmark setting - "industry leading" by a penny or a dollar doesn't cut it by a rather wide margin.
I have my spreadsheet for retro, and yes, it's a big number getting bigger each month. Keep stalling BoJo.... ain't getting any smaller.
Rewarding FO's while neglecting captains also doesn't cut it. Retaining year 1-5 FO is the company problem, not ours. Each pilot will spend far more time in the left seat than in those payscales, so while I understand the company wanting to pump up those numbers, they can get it via high captain rates as well.
I don't know.... maybe the company will finally have its come-to-Jesus moment, but.... I'm not holding my breath. Benchmark-setting (not just industry leading) or shut'er down.
Personally, I think anything the mediators will come up with next week is going to be underwhelming and unratifiable. I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong, but my number isn't industry-leading 737 rates by $1. Sorry BoJo... you missed that train a couple years ago.
Also, retro numbers too big? Well shucks BoJo, you had Carl stonewalling us for how long? What did you think was gonna happen? That we were gonna swoon at you "luving on us"? Four letter acronym from Goodfellas comes to mind....
Personally, I think we'll reject the mediators' offer. From that point, I think we'll either get iced, or we'll get released to cooling off period since we already stated we're not accepting the proffer of arbitration. I also believe that the real negotiations will happen once we're released to cooling off period. Nobody wants a strike, and getting released will really kick the negotiations into high gear because if no deal reached in 30 days, 800+ aircraft get parked, and Wall Street would sh!t.
And for those who think we'll just get iced, so what? Being iced hurts Southwest way more than it'll hurt us - good luck recruiting and retaining pilots. The company and FA's worked through their "ice" and now they have a TA. Whether it passes or not is another story...
Again, I know which rates are acceptable to me. Simply put, no 737 rate in the industry is acceptable to me, and I will vote NO on anything that's not benchmark setting - "industry leading" by a penny or a dollar doesn't cut it by a rather wide margin.
I have my spreadsheet for retro, and yes, it's a big number getting bigger each month. Keep stalling BoJo.... ain't getting any smaller.
Rewarding FO's while neglecting captains also doesn't cut it. Retaining year 1-5 FO is the company problem, not ours. Each pilot will spend far more time in the left seat than in those payscales, so while I understand the company wanting to pump up those numbers, they can get it via high captain rates as well.
I don't know.... maybe the company will finally have its come-to-Jesus moment, but.... I'm not holding my breath. Benchmark-setting (not just industry leading) or shut'er down.
.
11-11-2023 | 04:01 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: B737CA
11-11-2023 | 04:04 PM
#19
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Joined: Mar 2015
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We don't fly empty 737s around, we fly people..... lots of people.
Career compensation is what realistic pilot's would compare, so if the company wants to succeed they need to beat that number.
.
11-11-2023 | 04:36 PM
#20
Furloughed Again?!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,942
Likes: 82
From: Boeing 737
The year one through five thing is because that particular demographic took it in the shorts during the last CBA. Every other year in both seats matched the curve drawn by our competitor pay rates year for year... except our years one through five FOs who were below the curve. They deserve to be trued up.
As for the "supposal", it does two things. First, it gives us a pretty good idea of what arbitration would've looked like if both sides agreed to it. And it gives us a good idea of which way the mediator is leaning. Since the company has been making incremental moves since September, I doubt they'll call it an impasse. My guess is if there's no movement by both sides towards this "supposal" they'll put us on ice.
IF the government is even in business by the 30th. The house went home for the weekend and the government runs out of money in six days.
All that said, I agree with everyone here. Go ahead and put us on ice. It hurts them way more than it hurts us. An indefinite delay will hurt recruiting and retention, and the bill for retro will continue to grow. I'd welcome a few months without emails from Karl.
The NMB mediators are a bunch of ex-USAir guys from an era when they HATED SWA. They hated that they had to stand up Metrojet to try and compete with Herb and they hated that Metrojet was essentially a b-scale. So the question I have is do Mike Tosi and Chris Beebe still harbor ill will towards SWA, or towards the SWAPA pilots for lowering the bar on pay (not to mention PFT) in the late 1990s, and will that influence their "supposal" next week?
Guess we'll find out. I'm taking the holiday week off and am going to try not to think about SWA, 737s, or any of this garbage. Let me know if anything interesting happens.
As for the "supposal", it does two things. First, it gives us a pretty good idea of what arbitration would've looked like if both sides agreed to it. And it gives us a good idea of which way the mediator is leaning. Since the company has been making incremental moves since September, I doubt they'll call it an impasse. My guess is if there's no movement by both sides towards this "supposal" they'll put us on ice.
IF the government is even in business by the 30th. The house went home for the weekend and the government runs out of money in six days.
All that said, I agree with everyone here. Go ahead and put us on ice. It hurts them way more than it hurts us. An indefinite delay will hurt recruiting and retention, and the bill for retro will continue to grow. I'd welcome a few months without emails from Karl.
The NMB mediators are a bunch of ex-USAir guys from an era when they HATED SWA. They hated that they had to stand up Metrojet to try and compete with Herb and they hated that Metrojet was essentially a b-scale. So the question I have is do Mike Tosi and Chris Beebe still harbor ill will towards SWA, or towards the SWAPA pilots for lowering the bar on pay (not to mention PFT) in the late 1990s, and will that influence their "supposal" next week?
Guess we'll find out. I'm taking the holiday week off and am going to try not to think about SWA, 737s, or any of this garbage. Let me know if anything interesting happens.
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