Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

The year one through five thing is because that particular demographic took it in the shorts during the last CBA. Every other year in both seats matched the curve drawn by our competitor pay rates year for year... except our years one through five FOs who were below the curve. They deserve to be trued up.

As for the "supposal", it does two things. First, it gives us a pretty good idea of what arbitration would've looked like if both sides agreed to it. And it gives us a good idea of which way the mediator is leaning. Since the company has been making incremental moves since September, I doubt they'll call it an impasse. My guess is if there's no movement by both sides towards this "supposal" they'll put us on ice.

IF the government is even in business by the 30th. The house went home for the weekend and the government runs out of money in six days.

All that said, I agree with everyone here. Go ahead and put us on ice. It hurts them way more than it hurts us. An indefinite delay will hurt recruiting and retention, and the bill for retro will continue to grow. I'd welcome a few months without emails from Karl.

The NMB mediators are a bunch of ex-USAir guys from an era when they HATED SWA. They hated that they had to stand up Metrojet to try and compete with Herb and they hated that Metrojet was essentially a b-scale. So the question I have is do Mike Tosi and Chris Beebe still harbor ill will towards SWA, or towards the SWAPA pilots for lowering the bar on pay (not to mention PFT) in the late 1990s, and will that influence their "supposal" next week?

Guess we'll find out. I'm taking the holiday week off and am going to try not to think about SWA, 737s, or any of this garbage. Let me know if anything interesting happens.

Originally Posted by iahflyr

Delta 737 rates are industry leading. I wouldn’t expect a mediator to push for something above industry leading.

Why do you say industry leading 737 rates won’t cut it?

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Reading the last NC update, we are far apart on compensation with the company "taken aback" by the retro and rates numbers.... Uhh yeah, y'all chose to **** around, drag this out for as long as you did, now you get to find out. The bill has become payable now, and this group ain't settling.

Personally, I think anything the mediators will come up with next week is going to be underwhelming and unratifiable. I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong, but my number isn't industry-leading 737 rates by $1. Sorry BoJo... you missed that train a couple years ago.

Also, retro numbers too big? Well shucks BoJo, you had Carl stonewalling us for how long? What did you think was gonna happen? That we were gonna swoon at you "luving on us"? Four letter acronym from Goodfellas comes to mind....

Personally, I think we'll reject the mediators' offer. From that point, I think we'll either get iced, or we'll get released to cooling off period since we already stated we're not accepting the proffer of arbitration. I also believe that the real negotiations will happen once we're released to cooling off period. Nobody wants a strike, and getting released will really kick the negotiations into high gear because if no deal reached in 30 days, 800+ aircraft get parked, and Wall Street would sh!t.

And for those who think we'll just get iced, so what? Being iced hurts Southwest way more than it'll hurt us - good luck recruiting and retaining pilots. The company and FA's worked through their "ice" and now they have a TA. Whether it passes or not is another story...

Again, I know which rates are acceptable to me. Simply put, no 737 rate in the industry is acceptable to me, and I will vote NO on anything that's not benchmark setting - "industry leading" by a penny or a dollar doesn't cut it by a rather wide margin.

I have my spreadsheet for retro, and yes, it's a big number getting bigger each month. Keep stalling BoJo.... ain't getting any smaller.

Rewarding FO's while neglecting captains also doesn't cut it. Retaining year 1-5 FO is the company problem, not ours. Each pilot will spend far more time in the left seat than in those payscales, so while I understand the company wanting to pump up those numbers, they can get it via high captain rates as well.

I don't know.... maybe the company will finally have its come-to-Jesus moment, but.... I'm not holding my breath. Benchmark-setting (not just industry leading) or shut'er down.

Originally Posted by MudhammedCJ

You got that right, sprinkles. I've been saying this for years and I've been hammered down for saying it by the new guys. But to reiterate my point from years past... It's true! Year 1-5 need to be increased dramatically! But that's the very last thing SWAPA should negotiate. 20-30 years (cappy) vs. year 1-5 (FO)... Which years are more important to the group? Which ones are more important to the individual pilot? We can address 1-5 AFTER every other item is resolved. That's part of our leverage. We need to use it now. I'm ready to sit on the couch and watch The Price Is Right during spring break. Is Bob?

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER

Just a small point of order….our head mediator is former NWA. I doubt the two ex-USAir guys are out to side with the company due to events of the late 90s. They were pilots after all and unionists back in the day. Color me hopeful, but even if they are supposed to be impartial, they still have to have a smidgeon of empathy towards our cause to better the profession (one would hope).

🔥👇

Originally Posted by Liberty

SWA going turbo blast in the propaganda department explaining “limits of affordability”.

Originally Posted by Liberty

I don’t know anything about these guys. However, I seriously doubt they carry a soft spot towards us because they once shared the occupation. They have a new career and will do the job that is required. In no way do I believe that we have a pal that will bend our way. They want a deal by the end of this and will not care what it is at all. They don’t even really deserve a place in our thoughts. Who cares what they think? We just need to outlast their games. What does consume my thoughts are swapa falling way short of what we should be getting and/or our pilots losing backbone in the coming events that will begin with us being put on ice and then SWA going turbo blast in the propaganda department explaining “limits of affordability”.

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

Affordability is a moving target. Can't afford a pilot contract? Charge for checked bags.
Cant afford a pilot contract? Charge for assigned seats.
Cant afford a pilot contract? Charge to board first.

The cost of plumbers went up. The basement is flooding. Better find a way to pay the plumber.