flensr

Often it's can't get to that altitude at all. I dunno how dispatch calculates cruise altitudes but it's grossly over-optimistic a lot of the time. For 3-4 months I don't think I could get to planned/filed cruise altitude more than 2-3 times in that entire timeframe due to aircraft performance.

There is at least one dispatch instructor who consistently lets (or instructs) the dispatch trainees file us at unreachable altitudes with arrival fuels under 5k. Every CA I've flown with recognizes the guy's name and refuses to call dispatch when adjusting fuel when that guy touched the flight plan. They just add a couple thousand even if it means removing cargo and press on. I suspect they're hoping the chief will call asking for an explanation so they get a chance to thoroughly explain how bad this dispatch instructor is, but I haven't ever gotten a straight answer regarding that guy.

e6bpilot

There have been a handful of times I was filed above my max altitude, but all their system does is use the charts for the planned weights and ISA dev and computes an altitude that you CAN go to. That doesn't mean that you want to go there. Sometimes the weights are off, sometimes the temp is higher than planned. I have, a couple of times just for grins, gone up to the filed altitude that is above the gouge of 500 over optimum and 1000 below max and it was very tight, like 30 knots between the amber band and the red zipper. If it's smooth, then sure, that's fine. If it gets bumpy or if the auto throttles do what they tend to do and let the speed get away, it can get uncomfortable fast.

I have quit accepting the 5k (or less on some flights) planned arrival fuel. It seems like that happens in fits and spurts over the years. Most recently, they were giving us 5k arrival fuel and 300lbs of taxi fuel, which paints you into a very tight corner when delays happen. I had a dispatch instructor tell me that the 5k was a classic number and that with an all NG and max fleet we could go down to 4.4. I politely disagreed and changed the topic of conversation. It only takes one go around or runway change to really put you in a bind with that kind of fuel load. If everything goes perfect all the time, then sure, but it never does. Thankfully they have gone away from whatever was driving that taxi and arrival fuel loading crap, I assume due to pilot pushback.

I am fine with arriving at the gate with 4.4. I am not ok with a go around at 4.4.

flyguy81

4 puts you at emergency fuel....not sure why they think that margin is acceptable at all.

Caveman

mainly because safety is the highest priority

theres only one thing above the pineapple

Rseat

But that's the rub isn't it? You'd have be a fortune teller to know for sure that everything is going to go as planned when you land at your destination. All it takes is a couple of "unforeseen" vectors for weather or traffic, for you to be butt hugging your seat in hopes of arriving with more than 4.4.

And if you don't, who do you think will have to answer for that? Who will be standing next to you CA when you're performing your carpet dance? The dispatcher? The people responsible for pushing these numbers?

Guard Meow

planned landing with 6, gives you a go around.

WHACKMASTER

Is it Tamer? He was a running joke at the acquired airline even amongst dispatchers. If you see that name on your release, check your fuel numbers really well.

e6bpilot

That was my point (I realize it may have been lost in my blathering). Those guys plan our flights at zero airspeed. You get a chance to meet them during upgrade. I think the ones that show up to that event are the ones that "get it".
I add fuel all the time for various reasons. I have never regretted it or gotten an ounce of pushback. It's just part of my job. A good ops agent (they exist) will even ask you.

Not sure why the last few months have seen a renewed push for lower planned fuel loads, but it has zero effect on the end state of my fuel. Prior to March, I had regularly been adding 500 up to 2k pounds. Now all of a sudden it seems to be back to normal. I don't know nor do I really care to know why.

hoover

what if no one added extra fuel and just diverted when fuel got low? I'd think it would change pretty quick.

flyguy81

What I do…I’ll add some I’d taxi fuel is ridiculously low but I’m not calling to add 1-2k lbs.